The Vorpal Tide (Dev. Stage: Resurecting)

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Qes
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The Vorpal Tide (Dev. Stage: Resurecting)

Post by Qes » September 11th, 2007, 1:58 am

Formerly "the slivers" now we have a decent name.

::Playstyle::

Identical standard units with wholey different abilities that add one to another. Adaptive and perfectionist.

Recruitable units = 12
Low costs

Breif Overview: (under construction)




::Development Process Key::


Theorectical --> Encoding --> Art Creation/ Animation & Coding --> Debugging/Balancing --> Published/Playtesting --> Playable --> Complete


This Idea was Caeb's and the idea is this:

Each of these units would have "one trait" or ability that could be "shared" among those adjacent to each other. Abilities are also CUMULATIVE, if such a thing is possible for the ability in question. As the variety of units increases on the field, so does the power of each slicer unit.

Leveling is about combining, not dividing. Instead of a branching outward leveling tree, its a reverse, where all the dynamic units are headed towards one final (and ideal) destination at level 3.


Ideas thus far:

Base Slicer stats

Mechanical
HP:30
XP:40
Movement: 6
Cost: 10 for Dynamic line 0s, 20 for static line 1's
Attacks: 4-4 melee blade Swarm (for 0's)
Free ZOC

::Key::
(Designation in brief)Name: Abilities
alterations to standard form

Coding Color code:
Code not attempted yet
Code not attempted but rough plan hatched out
Code attempted but not working
Code working but buggy
Code working very well
Special code not needed for unit.

(Note: Buffs occur and are given at the beginning of the turn, and stay with a unit the whole turn. Auras, are only affective when directly adjacent to the unit, during any part of the turn.)
::

Note: Swarm reduces strikes based on current HP, at 2/5 hp, a unit will only do 2/5 strikes. This negative justifies the higher damages. They still may be a bit high, but we dont know how much impact swarm will do to balancing.



Dynamic Line

level 0's
(Red)Slicer Goliath: +1 Damage to attacks (aura),
4-4 Impact Melee Swarm


(Blue)Slicer Scout: +2 Movement (Buff),
4-4 Pericing melee Swarm Marksman


(Green)Slicer Sureshot: gain ranged attack(buff), +1 ranged strikes(aura)
standard attack,
10-1 ranged fire swarm (added via buff) (10-2 with own aura)


(Yellow)Slicer Swiftblade: +1 melee strikes(aura)

(Brown)Slicer Guardian: +10 Total HP, +10 Current HP(aura)
4-4 melee impact swarm


(Black)Slicer Savage: Flys(not shared), +poison to attacks(shared, buff)
4-4 Perice, melee swarm


(Grey)Slicer Sentinel: Firststrike(not shared), +10% Defense in all terrain (shared, aura) (max buff 30%) does not apply to mountains, villages, castles or snow

(White)Sonic Slicer: repairs +6(shared, buff)


Level 1s
Gold Slicer: (Yellow) and (Red) abilities, +Leadership(not shared)
5-5 impact melee swarm
5-5 blade melee swarm


Silver Slicer: (Blue) and (White) abilities, +reconstructs +12(shared,buff)
5-5 Pericing melee swarm
5-5 blade melee swarm


Bronze Slicer: (Green) and (Brown) Abilities, +Skirmisher (shared, buff)
5-5 Impact melee swarm
5-5 Blade melee swarm


Platinum Slicer: (Black) and (Grey) abilities, +10% Resistances to max of 50% (shared, aura)
5-5 Peircing melee swarm
5-5 blade melee swarm


Level2s
Diamond Slicer: All Silver and Platinum Abilities, +Protection(not shared)
6-6 pericing melee swarm
6-6 blade melee swarm


Ruby Slicer: All Gold, Bronze Abilities, +Magical to all attacks (not shared)
6-6 impact melee swarm
6-6 blade melee swarm


Level3s
Omega Slicer: All (mainline) slicer abilities, +Teleportation (not shared)
7-7 impact,piercing,blade melee swarm



(Static line, recruitable, do not level, do not recieve or give bonuses,have AMLA, lack "Swarm" weapon special)
Base XP 75


Chaos Slicer: 1 random trait of 10 potential, each with wildly different concepts.
No attack.
AMLA Stones (gains stones weapon special)

(Traits for Chaos slicer- none are shared
Ravager: Gains 7-4 blade melee attack, and bloodlust
Guardian: Gains 12-2 impact melee knockback attack, and +20% defenses in all terrain.
Bomber: Gains 8-3 fire ranged swarm attack, and flight
Harbinger: Gains 6-4 perice melee swarm storm attack, and +2 movement
Devourer: Gains 8-3 blade melee drains attack, and skirmisher
Mindbender: Gains a 8-3 ranged arcane chaos attack, gains a 12-2 ranged cold magical attack.
Savage: Gains a 8-3 blade melee ensnare attack, gains spiked armor
Berserker: Gains a 6-4 melee blade berzerker raid swarm attack,
Sentinel: Gains a 12-2 melee impact knockout attack, has 50% resistances
Reaver: Gains a 9-3 melee blade dread swarm attack, has loner ability)



Noble Slicer: +loyal (shared,buff)
8-3 melee blade
AMLA_TOUGH 5?




Bionic Slicer: +slows (shared, aura)
Has acess to normal human traits
12-2 slam melee
AMLA tough3?


Shadow Slicer: +Nightstalk (shared, aura)
6-4 arcane (Warpblades)
AMLA tough 3?



Slicer Movetypes:

[movetype]
name=slicerfoot
[movement_costs]
deep_water=99
shallow_water=2
swamp_water=2
grassland=1
sand=2
forest=2
hills=2
mountains=2
village=1
castle=1
cave=2
tundra=1
canyon=99
cavewall=99
fungus=2
[/movement_costs]
[defense]
deep_water=80
shallow_water=80
swamp_water=60
grassland=70
sand=60
forest=60
hills=60
mountains=40
village=40
castle=40
cave=70
tundra=40
canyon=80
cavewall=50
fungus=60
[/defense]
[resistance]
blade=100
pierce=100
impact=100
fire=100
cold=100
arcane=100
[/resistance]
[/movetype]

[movetype]
name=slicerfly
flies=true
[movement_costs]
deep_water=1
shallow_water=1
swamp_water=1
grassland=1
sand=1
forest=1
hills=1
mountains=1
village=1
castle=1
cave=3
tundra=1
canyon=1
cavewall=99
fungus=3
[/movement_costs]

[defense]
deep_water=60
shallow_water=60
swamp_water=60
grassland=60
sand=60
forest=60
hills=60
mountains=40
village=50
castle=50
cave=70
tundra=40
canyon=60
cavewall=80
fungus=80
[/defense]

[resistance]
blade=100
pierce=100
impact=100
fire=100
cold=100
arcane=100
[/resistance]
[/movetype]




The idea is that when next to each other, slicers combine abilities.
And grouping becomes important to tactics.


-Qes
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Last edited by Qes on May 17th, 2008, 4:48 am, edited 88 times in total.
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Urs
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Post by Urs » September 11th, 2007, 2:13 am

Interesting. Cool Concept.

less color based names would be better, IMHO. I'd like to see how this develops.

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Post by Qes » September 11th, 2007, 2:14 am

Urs wrote:Interesting. Cool Concept.

less color based names would be better, IMHO. I'd like to see how this develops.
yeah i just had to throw something down, it'll get better as it goes, right now were just brainstorming.
-Qes
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Post by turin » September 11th, 2007, 3:22 am

What can I say, sounds rather similar to Magic: the Gathering... IMHO basing a faction idea off of MtG isn't necessarily a good idea, but it might be doable. The key would be making it tactically interesting and making it at least somewhat plausible that they would work like that (beings like the slivers almost certainly don't exist in Wesnoth proper).
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Post by Erk » September 11th, 2007, 4:04 am

Making them all fly and have 50% in all terrain makes what could be a fun and tactical era pretty dull. Why not give them all a movement related to what the source of their trait is supposed to be? For example, a move bonus unit could probably fly and be a potent scout; a melee damage bonus unit might be slow and tough; a ranged bonus unit might be hard to hit with decent range but low HP... basically following stereotypes and throwing in some help from the names - eg. a "green sliver" (needs a new name) might be better in forest. Since they need new names, the names could be written to suit their terrains etc. rather than the other way 'round, too.

I have another theoretical faction in mind that would be really cool alongside this in an era. Haven't posted them yet but in essence they absorb powers from units they kill.

Anyway, on to your faction: some suggestions.
-How do your buffs work? I assume they'd be like Heal, taking effect on everyone within a 1-hex radius at hte start of the turn. I don't think it would be fun if a buff had to be active, like an attack.
-You might make them less derivative by turning them into a kind of magical cult. Cultists are trained in one of several techniques, creating the different unit types, and the techniques are designed to work in groups because cultists swarm.

Thus, Red --> Enforcer
Blue --> Winged Cabalist (assumes they can fly)
Green --> Frost Cabalist (or whatever; this would have a cold ranged attack)
Yellow --> Martialist
Black --> Shadow Cabalist

Et cetera. These are just suggestions.

I don't really thing they should gain more auras as they gain levels; that invalidates the use of multiple units. Rather, the auras they have should get stronger. Or perhaps there could be a splitting tree: either gain another level 0 aura, or improve to a more powerful aura. For example,
"green" can upgrade to either "bronze" or a kidn of supergreen that adds a more potent ranged attack and increases ranged attacks in the aura by +2. "Bronze" upgrades to diamond and then omega, perhaps (although omega seems like way overkill to me, I would just take it out). Supergreen continues on that path, getting more potent ranged attacks to share and a better upgrade aura, as well as getting better at his own ranged attack.

Cool idea. Sounds really fun.
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Post by Fred » September 11th, 2007, 6:13 am

there shouldn't be any abilities that affect the 'world'-that would be far too powerful, even if each sliver is, alone, fairly weak. by making each power 'local' (now I am using MTG terms) you should be able to make your faction more balanced, and would also help enforce the idea of teamwork-your slivers would have to move about in diverse squads to make the most of their abilities. also, you said that each sliver starts out as level zero, meaning no ZoC and little experience for enemies, but it looked like each sliver was to have 30 hp, which is kindof big for a lvl. 0 unit. I agree with Erk's idea that you should make the slivers slightly different with def, res, hp, movement, etc.., and that the slivers should not fly at first level. to me, it would make sense that only one sliver starts out with the ability to fly, but that ability would pass on to the more 'concentrated' slivers, stopping at the lvl.3 ultimate sliver.
I like the idea of making slivers into a wesnoth faction, and it might be fun, but definitely change the name and story so that it isnt totally copying wizards of the coast.
p.s. the iron and bronze slivers were my favorites, just dont name them after the metallic dragons.

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Post by Erk » September 11th, 2007, 10:10 am

I agree, the "global bonus" thing does not sound fun. Not with level 0 units. It reduces the tactical aspects again: formations become a bit less important... and since it is pretty easy to just hide a few units away, it becomes a matter of (say) accumulating a bunch of "red"s and hiding them to get a big global bonus on all melee attacks (or caching a bit of every colour, if bonuses are not cumulative). Since they are level 0 with no upkeep there is very little disadvantage to this.

Instead here is what I propose. You might like it :)

level 0 units are pretty much as described. So are the level 1, 2, 3 units that combine powers from lower level units.

However, each level 0 unit can also upgrade, like I suggested, into a level 1 that enhances its power without gaining new ones. Then they have a level 2 upgrade that also offers a global bonus.

For example, say:

l0 "red" (I'm just making these stats up to demonstrate of course [ed: didn't notice yours up there first. Well, you get the idea])
5-2 melee pierce attack, 3-2 melee impact attack
25 hp, 4mp
grants adjacent units +1 to melee damage

l1 "super red"
7-2 melee pierce, 4-3 melee impact
34 hp, 5mp
grants adjacent units +3 to melee damage and adds a 7-1 impact "slam" attack (the +3 damage is already counted into the slam)

l2 "hyper red"
10-2 melee pierce, 6-3 melee impact
46 hp, 5mp
grants adjacent units +5 to melee damage and adds a 9-1 impact "slam" attack
Grants ALL units a +1 to melee damage (this is not cumulative with the +5 to adjacent units, but IS cumulative with the bonus from other hyper reds)


something like that. This would make global bonuses rarer, which is appropriate since they could be quite powerful.
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Post by Qes » September 11th, 2007, 10:54 am

Ok Caeb and I hatched out a inital rough draft for them.

I'll consider all the suggestions now, but we wanted to push something through for now as an idea.

Renamed them "The Vorpal Tide"

and individual units are called slicers.

They're mechanical in nature, silican insecotizoid in apperance, and psychic in communication.

They no longer have global abilities, and not all of them fly.

Abilites still merge and we really want to keep with the "reverse tree" idea.


-Qes
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Qes
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Base code

Post by Qes » September 11th, 2007, 2:08 pm

This is the base code for the slicers.

I hope from here on out its just modifying this sucker over and over again.

Code: Select all

[unit]
	id=Basic Slicer
	name= _ "Slicer"
	race=slicer
	image="units/vorpal_tide/slicer.png"
	{MAGENTA_IS_THE_TEAM_COLOR}
	hitpoints=30
	movement_type=slicer
	movement=6
	experience=40
	level=0
	alignment=neutral
	advanceto=null
	cost=10
	usage=fighter
	unit_description= _ "description goes here"
	[attack]
		name=scissor blades
		description= _ "scissor blades"
		type=blade
		range=melee
		damage=4
		number=4
		[specials]
			{WEAPON_SPECIAL_SWARM}
		[/specials]
	[/attack]
[/unit]
Last edited by Qes on September 11th, 2007, 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Qes » September 11th, 2007, 2:51 pm

Gotta write this downsomewhere before i forget:

Ok the coding plan is this.

All Slicers have the trait "Silicanoid"

This trait, simply put, gives ALL THE ABILITIES and copies "mechanical" to boot.

The catch is, that each ability has a filter associated with it. These filters require that A) that there is the appropriate type of slicer, and B) that its adjacent.

In this each adjacent slicer would "activate" the latent abilities of the other unit.

As is, it is impossible to write abilities or traits (which are permanent upgrades) to compensate for the variety of units.

I think this will work.

Types of slicers would be defined according to the origional color schema and like.

"Type red_slicer" for example. If a type red_slicer is adjacent, suddenly the ability giving you +1 to damage would start to work.

This also allows for cumulativity i think.


-Qes
Last edited by Qes on September 11th, 2007, 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rough code

Post by Qes » September 11th, 2007, 3:15 pm

God this is harder than i thought.

Ok i sort of found away through the maze of tags to get at what i want, the only problem is that i want the effects to primarily only A) last a turn, or B) while adjacent to another unit. I'm having difficulties knowing whether or not activiation will A) be cumulative with it's own self and spiral out of control
and B) whether units that leave the vicinity and come back will get the thing twice.

I'm trying to limit the "cumulative ability" by adding a "number" count to the number approrpriate adjacent units, and then "setting" the various increases at fixed levels instead of actually having cumulativity.

I worry that the bonuses are permanent and not transient, which ruins this idea:

Code: Select all

	  [effect]
		apply_to=attack
		range=melee
		[filter_adjacent]
			adjacent=n,ne,se,s,sw,nw
		[and]
			count=1
		[and]
			type=red_slicer
		[/and]
		[/and]
		[/filter_adjacent]
		increase_damage=1
	  [/effect]
Bare in mind this is in a "TRAIT" code, not ability. As ability simply doesnt allow for non % based damage increases. (Leadership as a value is always % based)


Any help is apprecaited.

-Qes
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Qes
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Post by Qes » September 11th, 2007, 7:29 pm

Ok through blood sweat and tears of devs and myself the following plan is at hand:


All abililties are "latent" and awokened by units in proximity


Yellow and Red can be accomplished via latent specials.

Black, White and all Level 1's or higher can be done through latent abilities activated by unit proximity.

still need: Movement boost
Gives HP
Gives Defense boost
Gives Ranged Attack

-Qes
Last edited by Qes on September 11th, 2007, 10:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Qes » September 11th, 2007, 9:56 pm

GRAAAH!?!?!

Code: Select all

[if]
  [have_unit]
	type=blue_slicer
	[filter_adjacent]
		count=1
	[/filter_adjacent]
[then]
  [set_variable]
	name=blue_slicer_count[0].movement
	value=1
  [/set_variable]
[or]
  [have_unit]
	type=blue_slicer
	[filter_adjacent]
		count=2
	[/filter_adjacent]
[then]
  [set_variable]
	name=blue_slicer_count[0].movement
	value=2
  [/set_variable]
[or]
  [have_unit]
	type=blue_slicer
	[filter_adjacent]
		count=3
	[/filter_adjacent]
[then]
  [set_variable]
	name=blue_slicer_count[0].movement
	value=3
  [/set_variable]
[or]
  [have_unit]
	type=blue_slicer
	[filter_adjacent]
		count=4
	[/filter_adjacent]
[then]
  [set_variable]
	name=blue_slicer_count[0].movement
	value=4
  [/set_variable]
[or]
  [have_unit]
	type=blue_slicer
	[filter_adjacent]
		count=5
	[/filter_adjacent]
[then]
  [set_variable]
	name=blue_slicer_count[0].movement
	value=5
  [/set_variable]
[or]
  [have_unit]
	type=blue_slicer
	[filter_adjacent]
		count=6
	[/filter_adjacent]
[then]
  [set_variable]
	name=blue_slicer_count[0].movement
	value=6
  [/set_variable]
[else]
  [set_variable]
	name=blue_slicer_count[0].movement
	value=0
  [/set_variable]

[/if]

[store_unit]
	[filter]
		self only??
	[/filter]
	[set_variable]
		name=slicer_movement.max_moves
		value=$blue_slicer_count[0].movement
		multiply=2
		add=6
	[/set_variable]
[unstore_unit]
This is my attempt at the +2 movement bonus. It's ability is latent, and activated by other units, etc.

SOMEONE HELP ME, im going mad.

This isnt real WML, obviously, just what i had when i gave up and spat upon it then threw it up on this post for all the world to scorn and throw rotten tomatoes at.

I need help figuring these four out: Brown, Green, grey and blue.
Blue is what is jokingly up above.
-Qes
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Post by Sapient » September 12th, 2007, 12:48 am

Code: Select all

[event]
 name=side turn
 first_time_only=no

 #first we remove the effect from all units on this side
 [store_unit]
  [filter]
   side=$side_number
  [/filter]
  variable=remove_store
 [/store_unit]
 {FOREACH remove_store i}
  [if]
   [variable]
    name=remove_store[$i].variables.movementBonus
    greater_than=0
   [/variable]
   [then]
    {VARIABLE_OP remove_store[$i].max_moves add "-$remove_store[$i].variables.movementBonus"}
    {CLEAR_VARIABLE remove_store[$i].variables.movementBonus}
    [unstore_unit]
     variable=remove_store[$i]
    [/unstore_unit]
   [/then]
  [/if]
 {NEXT i}
 {CLEAR_VARIABLE remove_store}

 #now we add the effect to matching units on this side
 {VARIABLE count 0}
 [while]
  [variable]
   name=count
   less_than=7
  [/variable]
  [do]
   [if]
    [variable]
     name=count
     numerical_equals=0
    [/variable]
    [then]
     [store_unit]
      [filter]
       type=Blue Slicer,Silver Slicer,Diamond Slicer,Omega Slicer
       side=$side_number
      [/filter]
      variable=add_store
     [/store_unit]
    [/then]
    [else]
     [store_unit]
      [filter]
       race=slicer
       side=$side_number
       [filter_adjacent]
        type=Blue Slicer,Silver Slicer,Diamond Slicer,Omega Slicer
        count="$count|-6"
       [/filter_adjacent]
      [/filter]
      variable=add_store
     [/store_unit]
    [/else]
   [/if]
   {FOREACH add_store i}
    {VARIABLE_OP add_store[$i].variables.movementBonus add 2}
    {VARIABLE_OP add_store[$i].max_moves add 2}
    [unstore_unit]
     variable=add_store[$i]
     text=_"faster"
     {COLOR_HEAL}
    [/unstore_unit]
   {NEXT i}
   {VARIABLE_OP count add 1}
  [/do]
 [/while]
 {CLEAR_VARIABLE add_store}
[/event]
Last edited by Sapient on September 12th, 2007, 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."

Qes
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Location: Minnesota

Post by Qes » September 12th, 2007, 3:14 am

Sapient the code works each turn as you said.

One thing i noticed however.

Having built 4 of them around the king and hitting end turn, the second turn started with everything getting "Faster"


However


the non-king, newly built units, all got a max of 8 mp
despite being next to 3 others of their kind.

The king got 10, despite having 4 adjacent (and itself should be 5x)

so instead of 16 it was 10.


I build another again adjacent to the king. I cliked end turn

On this turn (the third turn)

All the previous ones went up two

The king (surrounded by 5 now) was at 12 movement, the first four, were now 10, and the new one was an 8

Each of the 4 was next to two others, and should have been 10, and were. The new one was also next to two, but was only an 8, while the king at twelve, should have been an 18.

I buildt no additional

On the next turn, all the 10's had become 12's, the 8 became a 10 and the king was now a 14.

It is clearly adding 2 a turn, and disregards the number around them. As the king didnt have any adjacent and was only receiving his own bonus and was an 8 the first turn.


Not sure what this all means, but there's some test results.

-Qes


EDIT: After futher testing (with completely working files, no more stupid movement_type issues) it is strictly additive every turn. Each unit, regardless of number in proximity, and of everything, will gain 2 movement a turn. Even if they leave the group.

We're close man, we're soo close.

-Qes
Last edited by Qes on September 12th, 2007, 3:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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