Naga Faction

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Vendanna
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Naga Faction

Post by Vendanna »

I'm thinking on what stats could they have and what units should exists for them (before making a base frame)

* = Name could change

Naga trait: Aquatic/amphibean that is what the normal Naga in mainline has, it improves their water defense or movement.

Basic units

Old Naga (water capable unit)
[Naga] *archer (naga with bow): Ranged type guy
[Naga] *Constrictor: Capable of Slow attack, tank unit
[Naga] *Viper: breakline warrior, poison attack
[Naga] Greensnake: Javalineer ambusher
*Cobra shaman: Naga mage, Hipnosis attack?
*Advancement from Cobra Shaman = King Cobra

Probably need some type of leader/tactician unit.

Tactician: aura like mage of light, your units inside the aura gets the better terrain defense (theirs or the tactician terrain defense?)

Edit:

And the stats for these guys (proposed gold cost)

Naga Archer (16): Ranged type guy

Neutral

HP:34 MP:5 XP:39
melee: 3 - 2
ranged: 6 - 3

Naga Constrictor(20): Capable of Slow attack, tank unit

Neutral

HP:44 MP:4 XP:50
melee: 9 - 2
melee: 2 - 4, Slow (+ swarm?)

Naga Viper (17): breakline warrior, poison attack

Neutral

HP:32 MP:5 XP:44
melee: 6 - 3 (poison)

Greensnake (16): Javalineer ambusher

Neutral

(ambush)
HP:31 MP:5 XP:36
melee: 5 - 3
ranged: 4 - 2

Cobra shaman (18): Naga mage, Hipnosis attack?

Neutral

HP:24 MP:6 XP:36
melee: 4 - 2
ranged: 4 - 3 (magical)
ranged: 0 - 3 (hipnosis)

Hipnosis could be take control of unit for one turn.

What do you think?
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Eleazar
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Post by Eleazar »

IIRC there are already several alternate nagas in the Extended Era.

Rather than ask yourself. "how can i turn the nagas into a whole faction."
you should ask yourself, "is an all-naga faction any fun? who would they fight with? is a fight between a normal mostly-land-based faction and a water based faction any fun?"
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
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Jetrel
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Post by Jetrel »

Eleazar wrote:IIRC there are already several alternate nagas in the Extended Era.

Rather than ask yourself. "how can i turn the nagas into a whole faction."
you should ask yourself, "is an all-naga faction any fun? who would they fight with? is a fight between a normal mostly-land-based faction and a water based faction any fun?"
Actually, I'd argue that it could have been a lot of fun. As a major design point (and this would have hinged on two things), I had originally hoped for just that to happen to the game with both the naga, and the mermen.

The two points it would have hinged on were:
1] accommodation in maps; all multiplayer maps must have enough water for them to be able to compete.
2] a "bonus to CTH, up to a certain level", for water units targeting units in water. Basically, a merman/naga fighting a water unit would have a 60% chance to hit them, not a 40% chance.
3] Additional water terrain types (deep water, reefs, kelp) would provide greater/lesser defense/movement - in the same way that our new cave terrains revolutionized that terrain.

It didn't pan out, partly because without those changes (especially a change away from the current 70% defense everywhere), water battles would be rather boring.

Drake Blademaster
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Post by Drake Blademaster »

Hmm. . . New map terrains. You might be on to something.

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Post by thissneppah »

Just a thought – they are all neutral. I seem to remember that it’s commonly believed as a bit boring (I could be wrong, please don’t flame me if I am). Perhaps you would want to change that. Maybe make the viper or the greensnake chaotic...

Also what era are you thinking of putting this in to? Making two factions to fight each other and then maps for it, plus balance seems like a whole lot of work to me.

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Noyga
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Post by Noyga »

Eleazar wrote:IIRC there are already several alternate nagas in the Extended Era.
There is :
- The Naga fighter line from Default unit
- The Naga Deepstalker (an alternate naga warrior with backstab) extra advancement for the Naga fighter
- The Naga Guardian line (a naga with some armor and a mace) from UTBS
- The Naga Hunter (a naga with a poisoned bow, slightly modified) from UTBS
Eleazar wrote:Rather than ask yourself. "how can i turn the nagas into a whole faction."
you should ask yourself, "is an all-naga faction any fun? who would they fight with? is a fight between a normal mostly-land-based faction and a water based faction any fun?"
It might be fun versus some factions, but not versus the default ones.
Maybe a Nagas vs Mermen could be fun, btw i find the default faction matchups more interesting
"Ooh, man, my mage had a 30% chance to miss, but he still managed to hit! Awesome!" ;) -- xtifr

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Vendanna
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Post by Vendanna »

For various reasons:

a) With only the normal game (no extended era) I saw only one Naga warrior unit so it reduced the possibility for a scenario/campaing designer (only spam 1 unit type = bad)

b) I like the snake people from a few other games, and I tought they could be a middle faction between drakes and elves (good in forests) and instead of flying they are amphibian so they are middecent on water.

c) I wanted it mostly for my enjoyment (and if I managed to do a decent graphic for anyone who wants to use it) but needed feedback about their stats/gold cost.

As a note, I maked them neutral because its easier to balance it in that way, that doesn't forbide to make one or two chaotic (the normal warrior is chaotic, no? it works with orcs)

Between, nice to know there is a faction on extended era, still a few Naga units more couldn't hurt and that way you could see a few merman units too, some of them have very nice graphics too.

And for launching them against default factions... well, that's like launching them against any faction on any era, I prefer against default because if they are balanced there they could be used on a default campaing someday.

So I'll check those other nagas and see what I can get done as practice :)
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Vendanna
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Post by Vendanna »

Here's a first attemp in adding a first frame ranged attack for the Naga Hunter from Extended Era.

My Twin brother helped me a bit on the coloring tought, any comments will be helpful :)

I tought that adding an attack animation for that little fellow would be a good exercise and also improve the chances of the animation being used.

Thank you for your time.

Edit: The changes are moving the bow one pixel higher (as said in the creating bow anims tutorial) and the other arm moving to grab the string, for easy checking.
Attachments
First frame of ranged attack
First frame of ranged attack
hunter-ranged1.png (3.57 KiB) Viewed 4848 times
This is the original by the way
This is the original by the way
hunter.png (1.38 KiB) Viewed 4844 times
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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

A month or two back, Jetryl asked me to compile lists of possible Naga unit names and personal names. I did send them off to him. If he still has them, and if he's willing to share, that might be quite helpful.

Or I could dig around for my rough drafts.

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Noyga
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Post by Noyga »

Adding frames to the extra Nagas (Hunter and Guardian line) is welcomed, it might also improve mainline since they come from UtBS which is a mainline campaign.
Btw it think it was in Jetryl's plan to remake the whole Nagas and Mermen graphics (with TC), so this might be only a temporary improvement.

Curently here is the full tree of the existing nagas used by the Extended Era:

Code: Select all

Naga Fighter -> Naga Warrior -> Naga Myrridon
             -> Naga Depthstalker
Naga Guardian -> Naga Warden -> Naga Sentinel
Naga Hunter
I plan to add one levelup to the Hunter, since i don't like lines ending at level 1...
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Post by Ultimatum479 »

For those worried about balance issues...why? He never did say it had to be used in multiplayer. It's a good idea for a custom campaign focused around the sea, fighting Mermen, boarding battleships, dodging Cuttlefish, etc...
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Post by Weeksy »

Having something that isn't useful in multiplayer without some people working on a storyline is generally frowned upon, as it means there isn't anywhere you will be able to use it in a fun way for quite some time... I've noticed that at higher levels nagas get higher defenses on land, and as they are modeled after snakes, they might have a unit with a bit better land movement, but this still leaves us with the lack of worthwhile maps for non-default eras, and so I think it's time a few accomplished mapmakers (my few excursions have been bad, when I get one worth posting I'll post it) get together and make a few desert/snow/water-inclusive maps, balancing them just a little towards a variety of eras... Extended era would probably be the first to need some of this balancing, but I think EOM would be a quick second, it will probably be as popular once it gets good graphics and names for all the units, and a little faction balance...
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Post by Darn Penguin »

Maybe as a cavalry unit, you could have a naga riding a crab that has better land movement. Of course, in any era where you provide a naga faction, you should also provide an oppposing merman faction. Heck, maybe create a whole era of factions that do well in water, and have it set in a flooded world.
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Ultimatum479
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Post by Ultimatum479 »

Darn Penguin wrote:Heck, maybe create a whole era of factions that do well in water, and have it set in a flooded world.
That's exactly what I was saying, except you said "era" instead of "campaign". Good idea, as that allows for multiplayer usage as well.
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

Nagas good on land?. Naga Crawler?.

I mean, if they are based on snakes, there must be some Nagas guarding hills and other territories. It is explainable as a loner kind, and they get called out when there is a nasty fight on land. I guess then they could branch into ambushers or skirmishers.
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