Northerners

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Xeron_
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Northerners

Post by Xeron_ »

I have to admit i kinda like to play this faction, however i am always in some way looking for variety. I find it somehow pittyful to find this otherwise very interresting faction stripped off any unique abilities.
Basically what is special about them poor orcs trolls and kobolds is, that they mostly just have 1 single path to level units up, got no unit abilities u cannot find on other faction, got rather few different unit types and focus on melee.

They have got no healer, they have got no leadership unit, they lack magic attacks.

Regeneration - can be found on woses
Poison - can be found on assasins, and ghouls
ensnare - is a lvl 2 unit ability here and is freequently found among the rebels.

I agree the faction is widely balanced;- still a new unit/ability would be needed to get them any speciality apart from not being any special.

Here are a few ideas mainly meant as starters for discussions:

an alternative branche of the Grunt tree:

Orcish Blacksmith

slightly more damage than a grunt, considerably more health and an amor value about as high as the one of a chalbyter.
4 movepoints and the terrain cost of a grunt

special abilities: "Arm" - the blachsmith provides amor for otherwise badly equiped orcish warriors. Following the leadership pattern all units around the smith are provided 10% bonus amor on blade piercing and bash per level they lack to the blacksmith's level.

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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper »

I agree that a lack of advancement options is one of the more boring qualities any unit line can have. This, though, plagues knalgans much more than northerners. Still, it would really be nice to have an alternative advancement for the grunt, if a good and balanced idea is found (I don't really like the blacksmith idea here).

I don't think the lack of special abilities is that bad though, it's more like a feature of the faction IMHO.

Angry Andersen
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Post by Angry Andersen »

Hm, I find the blacksmith slightly odd, after all he should be at home making weapons and not be running around the battlefield handing out free armor to people next to him.

But I agree on the general idea. Loyalists and Rebels have quite a few levelling choices in comparison to the Northerners.

How about a lvl2 'Gruntserker' ? Or a lvl2 Grunt-poisoner (melee only, slightly weaker than normal lvl2 Grunt). Another option could be to have a lvl2 Grunt who chooses to use a different or 2nd melee weapon (e.g. spear).

Oreb
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Post by Oreb »

I like the idea of having more differences in the unit line, I wonder though why the runesmith was never included, it is a very good unit.
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nightcrawler
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Post by nightcrawler »

Another grunt-type unit would be welcome.
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Elvish_Pillager
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Orcish Grunt -> Orcish Barbarian, stops at level 2, with plague (Skull on a Pole) on melee.

Skulls on a Poles are immobile units with 10 HP, no attacks, the defenses & resistances of a Smallfoot, and which give +25% damage to all adjacent units of the same team.
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Jeff
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Post by Jeff »

Goblin torch thrower!

Range attack that does fire damage and melee attack would probably be impact hitting with the torch. Yay for fire damage.

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Post by Flametrooper »

I'd actually say an option with more attacks and speed, which maxes out at level 2.
EP's idea is pretty funny, though. :P
EDIT: I just saw Jeff's post...don't Northerners already have a good deal enough fire? A Cold attack might be interesting, though...Orcish Witch Doctor or something.

Oreb
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Post by Oreb »

Having the Orc shaman would be actually good. But actually have a stable version for it...
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Sapient
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Post by Sapient »

Jeff wrote:Goblin torch thrower!

Range attack that does fire damage and melee attack would probably be impact hitting with the torch. Yay for fire damage.
I agree with Jeff 8)
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Re: Northerners

Post by Rhuvaen »

Xeron_ wrote:Basically what is special about them poor orcs trolls and kobolds is, that they mostly just have 1 single path to level units up, got no unit abilities u cannot find on other faction, got rather few different unit types and focus on melee.
I disagree with this sentiment completely - although I must say at first glance the northerners look like this. For me they are a fantastically interesting faction to play.

They do have abilities, and what's better than with most factions: none of the units that have abilities are so specialised that they are useful in only a few circumstances. I mean, look at the Wose, that's a unit that rarely is much use - compared to the troll. Other units like healers/shamans need a lot of protection. Similarly, the ulfserker is a very specialised unit. Same with the mage and horseman...

The point is: each northerner unit can stand their ground in the front row, and each has a variety of uses. That combined with the low cost will give you a lot of choices on your turn, compared to more specialised factions. It's just great fun and allows for a lot of strategy, and makes them very special in their own way. In one way, that's more interesting than pulling off the daycycle shift of hit and run with skeletons/ghouls and adepts.

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Post by tsr »

Sapient wrote:
Jeff wrote:Goblin torch thrower!

Range attack that does fire damage and melee attack would probably be impact hitting with the torch. Yay for fire damage.
I agree with Jeff 8)
I seem to remember a discussion about a uniy line like:

Goblin -> Goblin Arsonist (fire melee) -> Goblin Pillager

How about something like (to not violate RIPLIB concerning the ranged fire attack):

Goblin - Goblin Arsonist (fire ranged) -> Goblin Pillager / Goblin Torchthrower (unmounted and fire ranged)

I just love the idea of having two different paths to a lvl 2 unit. :D

/tsr

Xeron_
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Post by Xeron_ »

The orcish shamans from the Son of the black Eye campagne are nce

- low health, no magical attack, but a live stealing one (ranged)

- probably add them to the main line and give them - well - i'd say 2 level 2 forms of which one can process to 3 :P


The general abilities of the orcish shamans should be herbalistic lore, wisdom and - probably even leadership.

i think a healing abilit wouldn't suit the orcs. they have already got 2 poison abilities. I personally would like some offencive ability.

Noxious Fumes
All enemy units around the shaman will lose 4 points of health each round.

There could be 2 paths, one including leadership representing the whise old tribal leaders, while the other one, possesing this ability stands for the typical witchdoctors.

All shamans have got a lifestealing ranged attack and, maybe also a weak (poisonous) melee


Edit: @ Rhuvaen I agree the northerners are fun to play and deliver versatile units, but at least I tend to swiftly lose interrest in one faction if i get the feeling the possibilities and paths are a bit narrow.

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Post by Angry Andersen »

I think a second branch for the Grunt, which basically stays a fighter (i.e. no super-unique-extra abilities) would fit the northerners best.

Possible examples for such a lvl2 Grunt:
- Grunt Raider: +1MP, has a weak ranged attack, melee attack is less powerful, fewer hp, could also have skirmish
- Grunt Guard: -1 MP, heavier armor, more hp
- Grunt Slavedriver: Has leadership, which might be limited to affect goblins or maybe no lvl3 version for this unit
- Gruntserker: Has berserk, +1mp, less hp, maybe weaker attack or even
-10 pierce resistance (runs carelessly into those things, much like cavalry)

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appleide
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Post by appleide »

I like Grunt slave driver, if he has leadership(level 1), good amount of HP, and perhaps a powerful 2-strike attack (eg, 14-2 blade)
or, you could give him a whip, then he'd get like a 5-5 or something, but that doesn't seem very...

Actually... I was thinking if we could have armoured trolls earlier. They are COOL!

(Ever watched the third lord of the rings, where the armoured trolls bashes through the gate of gondor? I'd like those earlier)
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