Napoleonnoth

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Post by Casual User » October 6th, 2006, 2:12 am

Good afternoon.

I've been thinking a lot of expanding my world of Rainnen to four different countries.

For now, I'm still busy coding the second campaign for 'Tales of Rainnen', but I was wondering if I could get some feedback on the following idea:

An early 19th-century era with four factions:
-Imperium (based on the British Empire) (might need a better name)
-Poenia (based on Republican/Napoleonic France)
-Rainnen (based on the Austrian Empire)
-Bolearis (based on Czarist Russia)

Basics:

The era would have only three damage types : blade, pierce and impact. All sword attacks would be bladed, all musket attacks would be pierce and cannon volleys are impact.

The core of all four factions is a set of 'regular' units, though there would be slight differences from. They are:

Code: Select all

Infantry -> Veteran Infantry -> Guardsman
                               -> Skirmisher
This is the infantry, cheap, strong, no-nonsense. They are armed with a 7-2 sword and a 16-1 musket. Progression is : 7-2/16-1 -> 7-3/24-1 -> 7-4/32-1.

The guardsman has 30% resistance to blade and 20% resistance to pierce and impact while the skirmisher has 7 moves.

Code: Select all

Cavalry -> Veteran Cavalry -> Cuirassier
                               -> Hussar
The cavalry is more expensive and faster than the infantry. It has normal cavalry resistances, 7 moves and the same attacks as the infantry, but melee attacks all have charge.

The Cuirassier has 50% resistance to blade and impact and no penalty to pierce while the hussar has 9 moves.

Code: Select all

Artillery -> Veteran Artillery -> Elite Artillery
The artillery is the most expensive unit around. It would be a slow (3 moves) armoredfoot with no traits. It has only a ranged attack which has magical, making it very useful for attacking in defensive terrain.

The progression is : 20-1 -> 30-1 -> 45-1

All these units are lawful.

Any comments/suggestions welcome.

Factions:

All factions have some variation from the regular units, along with two special lines. Without further ado:

Imperium :
-Imperial Infantry has 2mp and 30% defense in shallow water
-Imperial Cavalry is 1-2gp cheaper
-Imperial Artillery is standard
-Special units are the Highlands infantry and the Captain line:

Code: Select all

Highlands Infantry -> Highlands Veteran -> Highlands Guardsman
The highlands infantry is more expensive than regular infantry (and doesn't have the shallow water bonuses), but it has a lot more hp.

They have slightly weaker muskets but slightly stronger melee attacks and are neutral.

Code: Select all

Captain -> Colonel -> Commander
The captain line is similar to the cavalry line (the commander gets cuirassier-like resistances), except they have a pistol instead of a musket, which only deals half as much damage. They naturally have leadership.

Poenia:
-Poenian Infantry has a few less hp, but costs 1 less gp.
-Poenian Cavalry is standard.
-Poenian Artillery has more firepower (I'm thinking 22-1 -> 33-1 -> 50-1)
-Special units are the Conscript and the Officer

The Conscript is a lvl 0 infantry unit with a 3-2 dagger and a 12-1 musket. He levels into either the Poenian Infantry or Poenian Artillery.

Code: Select all

Officer -> Lieutenant -> General
                 -> Medical Officer -> Military surgeon
The Poenian Officer is similar to the cavalry line, but weaker. The Lieutenant and General have leadership and good battle skills (the general has cuirassier-like resistances) while the medical officer and battle surgeon have 'heal 8hp', and the Military surgeon has 9mp like the hussar.

Rainnen:
-Rainnin Infantry is standard
-Rainnin Cavalry is standard
-Rainnin Artillery is standard
-Special units are the Hunter and the Tunnarian Cavalry.

Code: Select all

Hunter -> Sharpshooter
                -> Forester
The hunter has 6mp and needs only 1mp in forests and hills, and 2mp in mountains and swamps, making him a very useful scout in rough terrain. He has a knife and a musket, the progression being 3-2/12-1 -> 3-3/18-1.

The sharpshooter has magical for the musket while the forester has 60% defense in hills and forests. They are also chaotic, making them useful for mounting ambushes.

Code: Select all

Tunnarian Cavalry -> Tunnarian Veteran -> Tunnarian Hussar
Tunnarian Cavalry is cheap, fast (8mp, 10 for the hussar), amd has a stronger charge than the standard cavalry (8 damage instead of 7). However, it has no ranged attack at all.

Bolearis:
-Bolearian Infantry has 2mp and 50% defense in snow.
-Bolearian Cavalry has a stronger musket attack (+2 damage all levels)
-Bolearian Artillery has lower firepower (18-1, 27-1, 40-1) but has 4mp
-Special units are the Mojik and the Cossack Cavalry

Code: Select all

Mojik -> Bolearian Infantry ->...
            -> Militia -> Ranger
The Mojik is a lvl 0 that has only a 7-2 axe attack. It has 2mp and 50% defense in snow, and 60% defense in forests and hills. The militia and ranger each gain one more strike with the axe, and the ranger needs only 1mp in forests and hills. They are neutral.

Code: Select all

Cossack Cavalry -> Cossack Veteran -> Cossack Cuirassier
Cossacks are expensive but fast (8mp) cavalry, with only a pistol as ranged attack (deals only half as much damage as a musket) and fewer hp than regular cavalry, but that has skirmisher.

They are also chaotic, making them excellent for night-time hit and run attacks.

Again, any comments or suggestions welcome.

The Art

This is perhaps the best part. The Infantry and Cavalry lines are already drawn. I have included the ones for Rainnen.

The difference will be in the hat. Rainnin troops have the tricorn, Poenians have a sideways bicorn, the Imperials have a front-to-back bicorn and Bolearians have a conical fur hat.

The artillery should be easy enough to draw. It'll be an infantry guy next to a cannon.

While I still am short on is art for the special units, I have a good idea how to draw:
-Imperial Highlands infantry line (Infantry with kilts and funny hats)
-Imperial Officer line (already made)
-Poenian Conscript (Infantry colored in gray)
-Rainnin Hunter line (already made)

I don't know how to draw the others yet, so suggestions are welcome.

I am also thinking of making little emblems for the factions. I am thinking:
-Imperium : Silvery crown with sword and scepter crossed beneath it
-Poenia : Feminine bust with rays of light from it (Marianne knock-off)
-Bolearis : Bulky crown adorned with a cross with a pelt as background

I can't think of an emblem for Rainnen, so suggestions are again welcome.

Well, this is a large enough post as it is. I would appreciate it if some of you would read and post comments.
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Post by Maeglin Dubh » October 6th, 2006, 2:48 am

I like the concept. I like it a lot. It actually inspires me to cut a few damage types, simplify resistances, and actually get around to making an era.

Is it on the campaign server yet?
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Re: Napoleonnoth

Post by Temuchin Khan » October 6th, 2006, 3:14 am

Casual User wrote:-Imperium (based on the British Empire) (might need a better name)
How about:

Albion

Loegria

Britannia

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Post by Flametrooper » October 6th, 2006, 3:22 am

"Albion" sounds a bit older ... Isn't that what the Greeks/Hellenes/Phonecicians/those sort of people called the island of Britian? And Ireland was called Ierne. I don't quite know what Loegria means or where it comes from, or whose name for Britain it was, so I would, for now, reccomend Britannia.
hey.

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Post by Temuchin Khan » October 6th, 2006, 4:10 am

Flametrooper wrote:"Albion" sounds a bit older ... Isn't that what the Greeks/Hellenes/Phonecicians/those sort of people called the island of Britian? And Ireland was called Ierne. I don't quite know what Loegria means or where it comes from, or whose name for Britain it was, so I would, for now, reccomend Britannia.
Actually, "Albion" was still in use during the Middle Ages. I looked it up in a copy of Lawaman's Brut, a Medieval chronicle, before posting that last message.

"Loegria" was the chronicle tradition's name for a region of Albion roughly corresponding to what is now England.

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Post by Flametrooper » October 6th, 2006, 4:41 am

*shakes head* Silly me, arguing history with Temuchin. There's much I don't know, and nothing he doesn't. Anyways, My recommendation still goes for Brittania.
BTW, did I mention how much this is a cool idea?
hey.

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Post by Zhukov » October 6th, 2006, 5:49 am

+1 positive comment. I like it.

I must say, I'm a bit iffy about the 'standard unit scheme.' But the idea is solid, so I'm gonna wait and see.

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Post by Temuchin Khan » October 6th, 2006, 11:34 am

Flametrooper wrote:*shakes head* Silly me, arguing history with Temuchin. There's much I don't know, and nothing he doesn't.
No! No! Do feel free to argue history with me. There's always more for me to learn, and one of these days you just might be the one to teach me.
Flametrooper wrote:BTW, did I mention how much this is a cool idea?
It is a cool idea. Keep it up, Casual User!
Zhukov wrote:I must say, I'm a bit iffy about the 'standard unit scheme.'
But surely that fits with the spirit of eighteenth and nineteenth century Europe, on which the era is based?

EDIT: I took a look at the units. The upgrades seem to be faily similar to each other and to the level 1 versions, but I'm not convinced that that should be seen as a problem, given that these are meant to represent the armies of eighteenth and nineteenth century European empires.

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Post by turin » October 6th, 2006, 10:36 pm

Turin supports this idea.
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Post by Casual User » October 6th, 2006, 11:27 pm

First and foremost, art comments and questions are to be addressed here.

Second of all, it's very nice to get so much positive feedback! :)

Third of all, to answer some replies:
Maeglin Dubh wrote:Is it on the campaign server yet?
If I'll be satisfied enough with it by wednesday, I will put it up then. Otherwise, due to mid-terms coming up, it will take two weeks before they be up (at least).
Temuchin Khan wrote:How about:
Albion
Loegria
Britannia
Britannia is a definite no.

Regardless how fun I think this idea could be, it is also very flame-war-friendly. This is why, while I have made many cultural and/or historical references to real countries, I have kept away from using any words that have ever been used for those countries before.

That's why we have 'Tunnarian Cavalry' rather than 'Hungarian Cavalry', 'Poenia' rather than 'France' and 'Imperium' (for now) rather than 'Britannia'. It's also why I am wondering if I shouldn't rename the mojik and cossack (it's a cultural reference, but still...).

Loegria sounds too celtic.

Albion very slightly has the same problem as Britannia. While it's more obscure, I had already heard the term 'Albion' for England. Still, it's a cultural referance (thus acceptable), and I'll consider it.

But I'm looking for evocative names rather than necessarily historical ones.

Imperium is the largest colonial power of the four. It is an absolute monarchy, though it has some democratic elements. It considers itself (not quite rightfully) a 'ray of civilization' meant to influence others, and thinks it is (with some reason) the ideological and political descendant of an older empire of times gone by (Lavinium?).

For all these reasons, Imperium was a lame but evocative name.
Zhukov wrote:I must say, I'm a bit iffy about the 'standard unit scheme.' But the idea is solid, so I'm gonna wait and see.
All european powers of the time had infantry, cavalry and artillery roughly similar to the one mentionned.

Apart from which, this doesn't mean there can't be enough of a difference between the regular units of different factions to encourage particular strategies.

If the factions end up too similar, it is always possible to make them more unique (even relatively easy when we have a solid base to build on).

As it is, I would argue Rainnen and Bolearis are quite unique and fleshed out. Poenia and Imperium do seem a bit too similar, but only time will tell (besides, Poenia and Imperium being similar is historically accurate :P ).
Temuchin Khan wrote:The upgrades seem to be faily similar to each other and to the level 1 versions
That is addressed in the art topic, in the first post.

Ooof, another long message! Keep the suggestions coming.

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Post by turin » October 6th, 2006, 11:45 pm

Casual User wrote:(Lavinium?).
Depending on how this idea progresses, it may or may not be a good idea to have it be in the same universe as the Imperial Era... what do other people think of this idea?
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Post by Temuchin Khan » October 7th, 2006, 12:02 am

Casual User wrote:
Temuchin Khan wrote:How about:
Albion
Loegria
Britannia
Britannia is a definite no.

Regardless how fun I think this idea could be, it is also very flame-war-friendly. This is why, while I have made many cultural and/or historical references to real countries, I have kept away from using any words that have ever been used for those countries before.

That's why we have 'Tunnarian Cavalry' rather than 'Hungarian Cavalry', 'Poenia' rather than 'France' and 'Imperium' (for now) rather than 'Britannia'. It's also why I am wondering if I shouldn't rename the mojik and cossack (it's a cultural reference, but still...).

Loegria sounds too celtic.

Albion very slightly has the same problem as Britannia. While it's more obscure, I had already heard the term 'Albion' for England. Still, it's a cultural referance (thus acceptable), and I'll consider it.

But I'm looking for evocative names rather than necessarily historical ones.

Imperium is the largest colonial power of the four. It is an absolute monarchy, though it has some democratic elements. It considers itself (not quite rightfully) a 'ray of civilization' meant to influence others, and thinks it is (with some reason) the ideological and political descendant of an older empire of times gone by (Lavinium?).

For all these reasons, Imperium was a lame but evocative name.
How about this as a name for the British-inspired faction:

Bruterium

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Post by Tux2B » October 7th, 2006, 7:27 pm

A Napoleonic era! That really sounds a great idea (would you know any Corsican not supporting that idea? we're kinda napoleon fanatic)!

First of, I think that the names you gave to the factions aren't clear enough. You won't understand easily enough who's who. But if you don't want to create flame wars, I'd suggest not to use Bruteria because brute in French means something like "brutal idiot".

I've also had a look at your units list, but I couldn't find the grunts, while they were one of the most important units (or at least one of the most famous ones ) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grognard .

BTW, I think you should add Prussia (Germany), because they played a very important role in European History in the 19th century.
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Post by Temuchin Khan » October 7th, 2006, 9:49 pm

Tux2B wrote:But if you don't want to create flame wars, I'd suggest not to use Bruteria because brute in French means something like "brutal idiot".
Every alternative to "Imperium" is getting shot down! Anyway, "brute" has the same meaning in English as it does in French, but the logic behind calling the British faction "Bruterium" was that according to legend the first inhabitants of what is now England were a band of Trojans led by a man named Brutus.

Maybe the British faction could be called "Illion."
Tux2B wrote:BTW, I think you should add Prussia (Germany), because they played a very important role in European History in the 19th century.
Prussia was a highly disciplined state. Perhaps one of their specialty units could be a drill sergeant. He could have either leadership or illuminates.

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Post by Flametrooper » October 7th, 2006, 11:08 pm

Temuchin Khan wrote:...according to legend the first inhabitants of what is now England were a band of Trojans led by a man named Brutus...
What happened to the Celts? Or the mysterious Pre-Celts who built Stonehenge and who some people think were the Tuatha De Danann? And I thought Brutus was more of a Roman than a Trojan (which is Greek, isn't it?) name. That legend is screwy...

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