Free Goblins (Dev Stage: Statting, Coding-then Animating)

[Kestenvarn]

Every? Look again.

[Darth Fool]

You realize every reference in the Wiki says that hobgoblins are stronger, tougher goblins, right Turin?

That is, in The Hobbit, Tolkien used the word "hobgoblin" as a name for larger Orcs. But in English folklore, a hobgoblin is a small goblin, not a large one (in fact, they were supposed to be household sprites). Tolkien was, in effect, turning English folklore upside down, asserting that the worst goblins, the real orcs, were the hobgoblins.

[Flametrooper]

Well, do we want to base ourselves off english folklore, or Tolkein? (I still say there should be a "hobgoblin" unit that is the larger, stronger one. It's the best name I could come up with, it sounds better than "Big Goblin".)

[Cuyo Quiz]

Neat idea!

My immediate idea for unit trees:

Goblin Warrior, melee combat + ranged spears + Heals
-> Goblin Javelineer, more ranged

Goblin Tracker, poison darts and weak melee, higher speed
-> Goblin Ranger/Forester, that plus Ambush

Goblin Tinkerer, ranged crossbow (one shot)
-> Goblin Engineer, also flies (in a kite! Personal kites are much more fun than wings also, there is real historical precedent for using kites to make soldiers fly.)

Hmmm...

Code: Select all

Goblin Warrior; shield, spears ->Goblin Champion ->Goblin Hero ; leadership, obviously
               -> Goblin Hurler -> Goblin Sharpshooter ; more ranged, then +marksman

Goblin Tracker ->Goblin Forester ->Goblin Ranger ;poison darts, scout, gains ambush

Goblin Tinkerer; crossbow ->Goblin Crafter -> Goblin Engineer ; gains gliding kite/wing
                ->Goblin Fireworker ->Goblin Bomber ; gains fire ranged, they like to make things explode, maybe marksman, escaping bombs ain't easy

Goblin Rider (lvl1) ->Goblin Guard ->Goblin Protector ; heavy cavalry, goblin style, gains net(slow)
             ->Goblin Hiker ; gains skirmisher, bow ranged

All of these should have good defenses in uneven terrains and forests. Riders should be able to hold in the bad times until the others can strike.

I'm very tempted to have a bolt-thrower of some fashion (tinkerer produced devices).

Also, something heavy they can attack from, maybe their own kind of war elephant, some sort of big cattle animal, padded up and with a tower filled with archers. What better place that in an armoured, potentially stampeding animal?.

[Woodwizzle]

I'm loving this idea. Sounds like a great campaign. I do see it being humerous. Goblins tend to have cheezy one liners in the other campaigns. I imagine the leaders to be dedicated but have to but up with a lot of incompetence, this is a great setup for humor. Not to mention the political satire opportunities of Democracy in Wesnoth. Perhaps as the goblins quest for independece succeeds they are forced to deal with their own rising Orc population. A party system evolves, one party wants to euthenize them to protect the goblins from an uprising. One party wants to enslave their Orcs partly for revenge to orc kind and partly because their immense strength can be used to drive plows, build bigger buildings and run primitive machinery. Another party dedicated to the belief in inaliable rights believes that treating them as anything other than equals is hippocracy.

[Woodwizzle]

I again am going to say I am fascinated by this idea. I would really like to get involved in this campaign's development, especially if no one else is planning on it. Lemme know how I can help... anywho.. some more ideas:

How about basing some NPCs on stereotype templates of other revolutionary figures? Here are some examples:

Ben Franklin: This goblin is brilliant even by non-goblin standards. Instrumental in developing the government. He is also a talented inventor who gives the goblins a technical advantage. Perhaps he invents the blowgun, seige weaponry, and / or captures some thundersticks and figures out how they work.

George Washington: The military leader. Once the goblins start getting organized he is the "general" certainly has leadership. He probably rises to power reluctantly once the gobins become independent because goblins are still impressed by militaristic might.

Che Guevara: Though he was obviously a socialist revolutionary he would still make an interesting template. This goblin would be one of the better fighters, but certainly not a tactician. Probably has Healing too. Ruthless and fearless. He would be motivated to incite rebellions in other orc tribes to join the cause.

Sam Adams, Paul Revere, La Fayette etc. would also make some good templates templates.

[Zhukov]

Before people start getting all exited about campaigns and the like, I must take this opportunity to drop the 'a word'.

Art.

That said, I like the general concept. Good luck.

[Elvish_Pillager]

Code: Select all

Goblin Warrior; shield, spears ->Goblin Champion ->Goblin Hero ; leadership, obviously
               -> Goblin Hurler -> Goblin Sharpshooter ; more ranged, then +marksman

Goblin Tracker ->Goblin Forester ->Goblin Ranger ;poison darts, scout, gains ambush

Goblin Tinkerer; crossbow ->Goblin Crafter -> Goblin Engineer ; gains gliding kite/wing
                ->Goblin Fireworker ->Goblin Bomber ; gains fire ranged, they like to make things explode, maybe marksman, escaping bombs ain't easy

Goblin Rider (lvl1) ->Goblin Guard ->Goblin Protector ; heavy cavalry, goblin style, gains net(slow)
             ->Goblin Hiker ; gains skirmisher, bow ranged

All of these should have good defenses in uneven terrains and forests. Riders should be able to hold in the bad times until the others can strike.

I'm very tempted to have a bolt-thrower of some fashion (tinkerer produced devices).

Also, something heavy they can attack from, maybe their own kind of war elephant, some sort of big cattle animal, padded up and with a tower filled with archers. What better place that in an armoured, potentially stampeding animal?.

Goblin Warrior (5-3 spear, 3-2 spear, heals)
-> Goblin Champion (9-3 spear, 6-2 spear, heals, has ZoC)
---> Goblin Hero (11-3 spear, 8-2 spear, heals, has ZoC, Leadership)
-> Goblin Hurler (6-3 spear, 9-2 spear, heals)
---> Goblin Marksman (8-3 spear, 10-3 marksman spear, heals)

Goblin Tracker (3-2 knife, 3-2 poison darts, 7 moves)
-> Goblin Forester (6-2 knife, 5-3 poison darts, 7 moves, Ambush)
---> Goblin Ranger (7-3 knife, 6-4 poison darts, 7 moves, Ambush)
-> Goblin Zapper (6-3 shocking device (melee), 5-2 poison darts, 7 moves)
---> Goblin Electrician (7-4 shocking device (melee), 12-2 static (a.k.a. lightning) (ranged magic), 7-2 poison darts, 7 moves)

Goblin Tinkerer (4-1 knife, 14-1 crossbow)
-> Goblin Mechanic (5-2 knife, 19-1 crossbow, flies, 6 moves)
---> Goblin Engineer (6-4 scythes, 28-1 crossbow, flies, 6 moves)
-> Goblin Siege Tower (no melee, 21-1 crossbow, 9-2 flaming arrows, lots of HP)
---> Goblin War Engine (5-3 boiling oil (melee), 32-1 crossbow, 10-3 flaming arrows, lots of HP)

[kiet]

Not bad,but lots of HP,how much is that?

[Elvish_Pillager]

Somewhere around 54 -> 76.

[irrevenant]

Wow, looks like I've created a monster!

So does anyone else particularly want to run with this, or should I give it a go?

[Prometheus]

There is an interesting contrast between the orc society being described and democracy.

If democracy is about the rights of the individual, then shouldn't the strongest, most capable goblins- in other words, the most orcish goblins- have a dominant role in society? On the other hand, if democracy is about the rights of the collective, then isn't democracy a system of oppression, a way of keeping the orcs down- the very opposite of a putatively "Free" society?

This definitely sounds like a campaign rather than a faction. I don't see a need for a large number of new units.

[Darth Fool]

There is an interesting contrast between the orc society being described and democracy.

If democracy is about the rights of the individual, then shouldn't the strongest, most capable goblins- in other words, the most orcish goblins- have a dominant role in society? On the other hand, if democracy is about the rights of the collective, then isn't democracy a system of oppression, a way of keeping the orcs down- the very opposite of a putatively "Free" society?

You have a twisted view of democracy

democracy is a word that has many meanings these days:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

As a newly emerging societal structure, I would guess that the goblin democracy would be a form close to a "pure" democracy meaning essentially, each goblin gets one vote on all issues. This works reasonably well in small groups but breaks down when there become too many voters or issues.

[Thrawn]

I understand what the other guys are saying about not being possible and stuff like that but i still like the idea of smart goblins. It wouldnt be that bad if the rules were... "bent" once would it?

do you mena smart, or clever/cunning?

I think that turin over-reacted, but having "smart" goblins is frowned upon, becasue goblins are relatively stupid--in both folklore and Tolkien--even tricky hobgoblins could be easily out-witted, even if they had clever tricks.

I'm for them being somewhat intelligent though, as once they stop being solely "grrrr, we're strong!!" they would have time to improve other areas of life.

I think if larger golins are needed, call them hobgoblins, even though I'm a folk-lore person, becasue I can't think of a slightly larger one at the moment (I may change my mind though)

[Dragon Master]

In my eyes, goblins are smart, but not very logical. This comes off as stupid because of how they act. I can see a goblin being perfectly capable of making and running a catapult/ballista or whatever, it's just the act of firing one through your own lines into the enemy that makes goblins stupid. Besides, there really are no "rules" about fantasy creatures, just cliches and archetypes. Go ahead and make smart goblins if you want. It's a perfectly acceptable idea.