Extended Era revived - version 36

[Qes]

Good to see it coming along nicely.

Did you fellas need any descriptions or writs of word and wit?

Lemme know if I can help.

Also, I am trying to finalize the Qesicans for entry.

Art will be inflowing over time (thanks shadow and thespanceinvader) but the essential ideas are near complete i think.

-Qes

[Iris]

Just in case, some units from EE were already merged onto Invasion from the Unknown (campaign) unit tree, although using my own textdomain (for now :p ). They are the Chaos faction, the Wose Shaman, and the Steppe Orcs. I plan to merge the Aragwaithi and sylvan faeries too.

This for your information, so that you know where EE is being used.

[Noyga]

Some stuff about WMl. I still didn't fixed all the TC problems with the archer.
Second is it possible that the archer stands in the position from the beginning of the the ranged attack (attack frame 1) else it looks funny when he switches from a south attack to the base frame .
Third could you set the duck defense animation for melee only, looks a bit stupid too. Thanks in advance.

I'm not sure i have applied the new archer frames yet.
I still have a lot of remaining things to update ...

[Vendanna]

Well, before next release if you have time, grab the attack animation for the Naga Guardian on the thread in art contributions, it consists on two frames (I hope to do a third frame in a future tought) so the unit will have the basics covered.

Waiting to see the new graphics

[Nosmos]

hm i played a bit with the windsong faction and its really strange
some units have real ability overkill and some of the level 2/3 trees really dont fit
for example the melee slowing, cure, heal +8, leadership unit gets blade/impact/pierce 60 % resistance and 70 % cold AND regeneration when advancing to level 3 (resistance level 3 are 0 %)

the fighter tree is also a bit strange, the main fighter line has no level 3 and the other line you can choose is a mage that gets berserk at level 3 Oo

[Temuchin Khan]

hm i played a bit with the windsong faction and its really strange
some units have real ability overkill and some of the level 2/3 trees really dont fit
for example the melee slowing, cure, heal +8, leadership unit gets blade/impact/pierce 60 % resistance and 70 % cold AND regeneration when advancing to level 3 (resistance level 3 are 0 %)

the fighter tree is also a bit strange, the main fighter line has no level 3 and the other line you can choose is a mage that gets berserk at level 3 Oo

Yes, it is strange. Part of the reason I volunteered to do the unit descriptions for that faction was to try to smooth over some of the strangeness/inconsistencies inherent in the concept. However, as you have pointed out, there's probably also a good bit of balancing to be done with the Windsong.

[Truper]

Temuchin Khan: I understood what "in times of extreme balancing" meant in the context of the Windsong, but if "in times of war" occured in the description of virtually every unit in some other faction, I would remark that I thought it occurred too often.

[Kalis]

Hey Noyga and Temuchin,
I've been playing with dark elves, and I find they are just a weaker version of the elves. So I thought I would write a list of suggestions to bring them up to par.
This might be on the lower end of the priority scale, but I thought it should be brought up.
Note that these changes don't really take into consideration the wyrm unit.

Suggestions
1. Dark Elf Warrior and Corsairs attack to 7-5, 8-7 attack respectively (large impact on the day/night cycle effects).
2. Some change to dark elf lords. My personal preference would be multiple attacks for slow (e.g. 5-2, then 6-3, then 7-4).
3. Hunters get more melee attacks. For example... 5-3, 7-3 (backstab), 10-3 (backstab).
4. Lizard master get an 10-3 charge (from 15-2), or 8-4 melee (from 8-3), or more HP (e.g. 62), or a 3rd level. Possibly increase XP req from 35 to 42-48 to balance the stat increase.
5. Sorceress XP to level reduced to 70.


1. Dark Elf Warrior & Corsair
Currently, they're just not worth it. You give up a decent range attack and leadership for very little extra damage compared to the Captain branch.
2. Dark Elf Lords
There is nothing to justify that 2 additional gold cost over the warrior. The single strike slow attack is inherently a risky move that is rarely not worth using.
3. Dark Elf Hunter / Shadow / Stalker
Right now, they're a lower HP, lower resists, lower damage version of the Elvish Archer / Ranger / Avenger branch.
The damage increase will make them a hard hitting, but easily killed unit. Kinda like the aragwaith archer tree.
4. Lizard Master
The level 1 lizard is great, although extremely expensive at 24. However, the lizard master is just pathetic. A unit that costs 24 gold, upkeep of 2, and doesn't hit all that hard unless you're charging (which is a huge risk unless attacking weak melee units like shamans and mages)
5. Sorceress XP reduction
This change is probably only going to matter for survival maps like 3p survival, orocia, etc. But it'll have a big effect. Right now, it's almost impossible to get a cleric for dark elves.

Also, with regards to the new wyrm units:
Wouldn't it make more sense for the mistral and boreal wyrms to have the wings? Since those names are pertain to northerly winds. Just a thought. And finally, some potential descriptions for the wyrms?

Ice Wyrm
Cold-blooded reptiles from the north, ice wyrms are the youngling form of creatures that can live centuries. Despite their relative youth, they are already twice the size of the common man. Frightening creatures to encounter, they are capable of blasting enemies with their icy breath, or lashing them with their tail. Even worse, their scaly hide offers them natural protection against a warrior's blade. It is fortunate that their natural environment has made them ill-suited to face fire.

Mistral Wyrm (current Frost Wyrm)
Ice Wyrms that dwell high in the mountains eventually grow wings and become capable of flight. Called Mistral Wyrms, they are far stronger and more capable than Ice Wyrms. One would do well to avoid these creatures.

Boreal Wyrm (current Rime Wyrm)
Ancient wyrms so rarely seen that many regard them as legends, Boreal Wyrms are evolved from Mistral Wyrms that have lived for over a century. Viciously powerful and unbelievably fast, sightings of these creatures are made even rarer by the fact that Boreal Wyrms attack on sight. Only the most powerful of champions can face these creatures and survive.

Frost Wyrm (current Mistral Wyrm)
Ice wyrms that live in the sea become more serpentine, turning into Frost Wyrms. Named for the powerful icy blasts they emit, frost wyrms prefer to freeze their enemies from afar. When cornered, they use their powerful tails to pummel their enemies.

Rime Wyrm (current Boreal Wyrm)
Unlike humans, wyrms only grow stronger and more powerful with age. Rime wyrms are elder frost wyrms: stronger and capable of a more savage breath attack.

[xylan]

we tested the last pre9 EE yesterday, and i wanted to say that, exept of course the WML warnings (which is normal it has to be fixed) we really think that that steppe orcs are really ugly, and such a good era don't deserve such a faction. This faction is unbalanced as well (barrier?) when we see the effort done with the sidhs, darks elevs and even last windsong, i really think that the steppe orcs shoul not be included in it. We would prefer for example the Elementals from EOM, which is the second great Era with yours.

Did you already think about merging EE/EOM ? getting the better from you both eras ?

anyway, go on it good job, we wait until all bugs are fixed for *.8

noyga : continue c'est du bon boulot

[Shadow]

Good to see it coming along nicely.

Did you fellas need any descriptions or writs of word and wit?

Lemme know if I can help.

Also, I am trying to finalize the Qesicans for entry.

Art will be inflowing over time (thanks shadow and thespanceinvader) but the essential ideas are near complete i think.

-Qes

Don't mention it.

new elven spirit line:

Sprite
Fairy
Faerie Spirit
Dryad

A bit short:
(No offence intented I just browsed though the files and some looked a bit short. Some further content for them would be nice.)
Steamcopter
Gyrocopter
Steamwheel
Thunderwheel
Warwheel

Wose Shaman
Chaos Flesh Hound
Chaos Rabid Hound
Chaos Warp Hound
Aragwaith Strongbow
Aragwaith Greatbow
Aragwaith Slayer

Though the massive help here the list got very small. An overhaul for the last chaos units would be cool. So they would look like of a piece.

For the dark elves why shouldn't be the Lord a leader choice only? Like the loyalist Sergeant (accordingly buffed though). Wouldn't be bad either.

For steppe orcs. I only fear the barrier and the flankers the rest is somehow pathetic compared to the units other factions have. The optic is nice for my taste. Don't know if they are overpowered at the moment.

[Weeksy]

They were a bit overpowered in some matchups do to slow+skirmisher, now they're extremely underpowered in some matchups, and have the chance of putting up a fair fight on maybe a few maps/matchups.

[Shadow]

They were a bit overpowered in some matchups do to slow+skirmisher, now they're extremely underpowered in some matchups, and have the chance of putting up a fair fight on maybe a few maps/matchups.

Well as I see you can run circles around them (depending on the map). The play basicly a bit like Northerners without their fast units and cheap cannon fodder.


As Aragwaith I try to outrun them the Steppe Hunter still annoys me as hell but he is OK now.
Don't know but i think this matchup is OK at least I don't have that much trouble as I had in the beginning. I don't know how it works for the others.

[Truper]

Suggestions
1. Dark Elf Warrior and Corsairs attack to 7-5, 8-7 attack respectively (large impact on the day/night cycle effects).
2. Some change to dark elf lords. My personal preference would be multiple attacks for slow (e.g. 5-2, then 6-3, then 7-4).
3. Hunters get more melee attacks. For example... 5-3, 7-3 (backstab), 10-3 (backstab).
4. Lizard master get an 10-3 charge (from 15-2), or 8-4 melee (from 8-3), or more HP (e.g. 62), or a 3rd level. Possibly increase XP req from 35 to 42-48 to balance the stat increase.
5. Sorceress XP to level reduced to 70.


1. Dark Elf Warrior & Corsair
Currently, they're just not worth it. You give up a decent range attack and leadership for very little extra damage compared to the Captain branch.
2. Dark Elf Lords
There is nothing to justify that 2 additional gold cost over the warrior. The single strike slow attack is inherently a risky move that is rarely not worth using.
3. Dark Elf Hunter / Shadow / Stalker
Right now, they're a lower HP, lower resists, lower damage version of the Elvish Archer / Ranger / Avenger branch.
The damage increase will make them a hard hitting, but easily killed unit. Kinda like the aragwaith archer tree.
4. Lizard Master
The level 1 lizard is great, although extremely expensive at 24. However, the lizard master is just pathetic. A unit that costs 24 gold, upkeep of 2, and doesn't hit all that hard unless you're charging (which is a huge risk unless attacking weak melee units like shamans and mages)
5. Sorceress XP reduction
This change is probably only going to matter for survival maps like 3p survival, orocia, etc. But it'll have a big effect. Right now, it's almost impossible to get a cleric for dark elves.

1) Do you really mean to suggest that the Dark Elf Warrior should be superior to the Loyalist Swordsman in every way? As it stands now, the Warrior has generally better resistances, a better movetype, and an additional movement point. Does it really need superior offensive power on top of all this? On the other hand, I do generally tend to prefer Captains. I've considered suggesting that the Captain be renamed, lose leadership, and leadership be transferred to the Lord branch. The Captain would still be an interesting choice, since it gains a ranged attack and the option of a pierce melee attack.

2) You may have an argument regarding the cost of the Lord, but I certainly recruit them, and I do use their slow attack - its quite a nice option during day. Adding a strike to the slow attack would seriously overpower the unit - it would either have to go up in cost, or lose something else.

3) The Hunter seems perfect to me as it is. In fact, it is perhaps my favorite unit in the Era. It has negative blade and pierce resisttances, true, but significant cold resistance, and some impact resistance. It's an elusivefoot, so it has better defences than the Elvish Archer everywhere except forests.

4) I have to admit that right now, neither of the versions of Wesnoth I have installed allows me to see the stats of a Lizard Master (what an annoying "feature"). I believe that what the Lizard Master loses in combat power in comparison with say, a Knight, it gains in defence and movetype, but I could be wrong about this - I'll have to work at leveling a Lizard Rider, so I can check

5) While I've had plenty of Clerics in the scenarios you mentioned, I wouldn't mind seeing the Sorceress' xp to level reduced - I think the current requirement is left over from when the Enchantress line was hugely overpowered

I disagree with your contention that the Dark Elves are "just a weaker version of the elves." I think they have their own flavor, and overall, enough abilites to be sucessful.

I like your wrym descriptions. I'd suggest one minor change: in the description for the Boreal Wyrm, replace "so rarely seen that they are only known in legend" with "so rarely seen that many regard them as legends."

[Kalis]

Hey truper.
Thanks for catching the wyrm description Edited my post.

Some responses about the dark elves:
1. While theoretically better, a higher attack lower damage unit tends to be very awkward to use.
In combat situations, it generally requires 2 hits to kill an enemy (as opposed to the 1-hit of loyalist swordsmen), which means you generally end up taking more retaliation damage.
Certainly, the royal guard 12-4 is arguably better than the 7-7 corsair simply due to sheer killing ability (and thus, reduction of retaliation damage).
15-4 day, 12-4 normal, 9-4 night vs.
5-7 day, 7-7 normal, 9-7 night.


Also note that the dark elf is a faction without much healing (whereas the loyalists get white mages). So the suggestion of more damage.
An alternate suggestion would be a hit point increase, but elves with more hit points than humans sounds a bit strange.

I also like the suggestion for captains to lose leadership and get renamed to a different unit.

2. Dark elf lords:
Would it overpower the unit? I was thinking along the lines of elvish sorceress and it's upgrades.
Maybe 10-1, 10-2, 10-3 slow instead?
Also, why do dark elf lords also require 120XP to level?

3. I like the hunter a lot too. I know it's an elusivefoot, hence I didn't suggest any change to it's hit points or defenses.
But you can't disregard the fact that they are really vulnerable units that don't hit hard in the melee, which makes them pretty pointless to put on the frontlines. A 3rd melee strike would just allow them to hit a bit harder, and give them some added versatility.

4. Lizard master here
http://zapicm.freeshell.org/dev/Dark_El ... aster.html
1 less movement, better movetype, 40% defense on terrain like swamps, but 30% on grass.
Dunno.


Don't get me wrong, I really like dark elves, I'm just offering some suggestions to make some of their units more workable/logical.
Warrior/Corsair branch.
Lords and captains don't really have that much difference.
Hunters are great but their melee attack is ultimately useless (you won't use that backstab, since the ranged attack is just so superior).
Lizard master you just might be right, I'm not really sure about them, but I think 24 gold cost is ridiculous for their current stats.

Oh one additional point: sorceress level 1 requiring 55XP to level despite 6-2 impact melee and 5-3 ranged. Should it be tweaked down a bit? Just a thought.

[Kalis]

Some chaos descriptions. I'll do a few everyday

Hounds:
Trained hunting dog are ferocious animals, eager to attack in an uncontrolled frenzy.

Rabid Hound:
Dog infused with chaotic magic turn rabid. The magic degrades their mind and turns them into slavering beasts that hunger for bloodshed.

Warp Hound:
With time, rabid hounds become mutated by the insidious magic of chaos flowing through their bodies. They grow horns and other demonic traits, becoming Warp Hounds. Their only desire is to rend their enemies with teeth and claw.

Flesh Hound:
A hound that becomes a host for a lesser daemon turns into a flesh hound. The unnatural fusion gives them a strange half dog, half human. With a daemons cunning and a dog's senses, these muscled berserkers follow the stench of blood.