Extended Era revived - version 36

[Shadow]

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(snipping the actual quite good analysis)
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I agree almost completly only the Spearman ranged isn't that great because
a) it would be too similar to the Loyalist Spearman and
b) I was too lazy drawing further frames.

I differ with the Archer I use the Swordman as base and the archer only as exception because some unlucky hits and 15g are gone too much gamble.

The mage looks also a little bit overpowered to me but he is together with the eagle the only unit that could deal with skeletons (I don't know if they still have the high blade resistance, haven't played against them for a long time).

Yeah the Aragwaith advancements look almost overpowered but this gets hopefull compensated though the fact that they die most of the time before they get enough Exp.


I always wanted the approach of an combined force, every unit has it's purpose and no one gets absolute while the advancements reach somehow a little bit heroic proportions and excel as individuals.
Though that was my plan I lost the overview over the time and Noyga has the last word because he has a better insight than me and I am just the artist.

[Noyga]

Nice analysis Wen Yang.
The Flagbearer vs Pikeman balance is indeed messy. I should probably nerf the flagbearer attack potential a little more.

@General Mac :
You miss one important point : this unit can deal more damage than the loyalist mage (especially at favorable time) with a little more interesting damage type than fire (especially versus drakes).

[Wen Yang]

Yeah, Flagbearer Vs Pikeman is probably one of my main beef, since one is a good bit more useful than the other.

The only good use I found so far for the pikeman is to act as a threat if the enemy army happens to be a bit cavalry-heavy, or if they're drakes. A 17-2 or 24-2 is darned nasty when you have a weakness to it AND it is guaranteed to strike first, making any attack on the unit darned risky unless you use ranged.

An idea though: The spearman sprite has a shield. How about giving it something like 10% resistances across the board, maybe upgrading it a bit on the pikeman/Guardian line?

Otherwise, removing marksman off the Flagbearer would be a pretty good nerf, giving it flexibility of weaponry type and superior defense + Protection as its main selling point. The Marksman skill could probably go to the Longswordsman/Swordmaster line to further differentiate them from the Guard/Shield Guard line, as at the moment the difference between the two is practically 1MP Vs good resistances. Damage potential is roughly equal, but marksman would be an incentive to go Longswordsman, which is at the moment kinda lacking in my opinion.

Oh! While we're at it, may I suggest changing the Aragwaith Swordsman's attack to 8-3 instead of its current 6-4? The numbers develop much more patterned that way.

8-3 -> 12-3 -> 16-3
8-3 -> 9-4 -> 10-5

Shadow: Yeah, when playing against undead mages and eagles are indeed the best remedy for skeletons, although I also use the rest, with pikeman still more than capable of holding villages as needed, an archer or two to massacre WCs, and the occasional swordsman to chop up adepts. The Aragwaithi sure gives a good combined arms feeling, as just spamming a certain unit with them won't work all too well.

[Shadow]

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Wood Elves:
- (perharps in a separate version of the era) remove all the Mermens and mage from the recruitment list
- (perharps in a separate version of the era) add a new fire fairy unit line (some kind of flying mage (5 moves, fly movetype)). I would need some names for the lvl 1 -> lvl 3 units. Some level 2 & 3 different sprites might be nice too (currently i would use something like jb's avatar).
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Here I can help perhaps.




On the left the draft in Original size. Than aimed size and comparsion.

Reduces the time needed for spriting drastical and makes more fun.
If this works for you I must only color it.


@Wen Yang
Sounds reasonable.

[Noyga]

It doesn't look bad, through i have now idea how it would look ingame.

[Wen Yang]

Shadow: Sweet-looking sketch. I'd like to see that sprite-ified, although I too wonder how it'll look like in sprite-form.

Another little comparison between our good ol' Flagbearer & Pikeman lines:

Pikeman has 10 Extra HP, which is more than negated by the combination of good resists + Steadfast on the Flagbearer. HP advantage dwindles to 8 at the Guardian/Captain stage.

Pikeman/Guardian has 1 more MP, Flagbearer counters with having the VERY useful protection ability. +20% resistance all over the board to any unit around it is not to be scoffed at, as this is very useful on BOTH offense and defense. Even more scary when you put two flagbearers side to side, where their steadfast ability when combined with their natural resistance and the protection effect easily gives them 50% resistance to ANY attack.

Pikeman does 6 more points of damage compared to flagbearer, which is kinda negated by flagbearer having marksman on one of its attack. Suggestion is removing Marksman, which has been mentioned many times, and without it, the Pikeman has its 34-point first strike weapon, allowing it to probably kill an attacker while allowing it only a single attack of its own in, to the flagbearer's 2-type 28-point offense. I think removing Marksman might be the way to go here, as it further cements the differing roles of these two units.

I'd also suggest nerfing the Captain's offense a bit. As it is, it has either a 38-point pierce or a 44 (!)-point blade attack WITH Marksman. My suggestion is removing marksman, and streamlining the attacks, giving it 20-2 pierce and 10-4 blade. Its superior defensive power ought to make up for the worse attack, and this way, the Guardian will have an 8-point lead on the damage race coupled with First strike, further cementing the different roles these units seem to be planned for.

Just my 2 cents.

Edit: Just another thing. This one is more of the result of my brain having nothing better to do, so feel free to disregard it.

The name of the Aragwaith Scout's Lvl2 and 3 versions have always bugged me for some reason... Then I noticed that it's the somewhat unfitting name advancement, and that they feel kind of... bland as they are. (Have to admit, there is not much logic in the Scout -> Lancer -> Silver Shield advancements, at least name-wise. )

Thereby, I would like to propose this:

Code: Select all

                -> Aragwaith Lancer -> Aragwaith Silver Lance
Aragwaith Scout -> Aragwaith Horseman -> Aragwaith Silver Shield
                -> Aragwaith Mounted Archer -> Aragwaith Silver Bow

Yep, I'm proposing giving the mounted aragwaithi three advancement paths, meant to give them more option in terms of fast-moving units, as at the moment I rarely find the need to use the Scout, mostly because eagle riders usually do what they do better. A little "spice" to the line might do well to alliviate that.

What I had in mind would make the scout stay as it is, unchanged, but revamping the advancements rather drastically.

The Lancer -> Silver Lance line would ideally be VERY offense-oriented, dropping armor (less resistances, lower HP too compared to the other 2 lines) to allow more speed (1 more MP compared to the scout) and is armed with spears, with which they either stab as normal (11-3 and 12-4 seems like good values. As is the Silver Shield actually has better offense than anything else in the aragwaith arsenal) or charge with (Something evil. 15-2 and 20-2 perhaps?). They would still have the typical aragwaith weakness in their low HP, but would make perfect shock troopers. Either they kill first, or they are killed.

The Horseman -> Silver Shield line would probably armor themselves more (10% better resistances across the board?) and are somewhat slower (1 less MP, perhaps?), giving the aragwaith a third option for a defensive-minded unit. Maybe dropping the spear for a Scimitar/Saber/Sword with less damage but more strikes to further differentiate them if needed. (Damage values I have in mind is around 7-4 and 9-5)

The third line would sacrifice melee capability for taking up the bow, keeping the horse unchanged (Same res and MP as the scout), maybe keeping a spear will do, since the normal aragwaith archer is also a darned nasty thing at melee. Damage values I have in mind is around 12-2 -> 12-3 for melee and 8-4 -> 11-4 ranged, keeping the mounted version weaker than the ground-bound version to make up for the extra mobility.

Any comments? Or am I better off keeping this kind of idea to myself from now on?

[Weeksy]

I'm all for a scout name revamp, and having at least an offense and a defense path, but I also think that giving the spearman (they have shields, you know) some resists (pierce, especially) would get them used more, as currently there is no way to really utilize the good resists of the scout, as a bowman can just destroy them... having a scout with a spearman on each side would be rather nice, even nicer if the scout had a little better damage than the spearmen, or perhaps a weak ranged, something like 5-2 or 4-3

[Shadow]

It looks something like this.

Ideas and suggestions are welcome.

[theotherhiveking]

gooooooooood you god! awesome it looks looks...!, OMG U RULE..

[Weeksy]

Looks amazing, but it doesn't look like the fire-user Noyga wanted... See what the art devs think, that could have some good potential as a hero version of an elf, such as what's her face in UtBS

[Shadow]

Looks amazing, but it doesn't look like the fire-user Noyga wanted... See what the art devs think, that could have some good potential as a hero version of an elf, such as what's her face in UtBS

Just not to mix thinks up I was....

[wayfarer]

...involved in Art Development.

[Shadow]

And at the moment I'm finished with it.
So let's just look at the potential use for the Extended Era.
If not all good things are three.

[Wen Yang]

Looks excellent, only problem I would say really noticeable is the size though... As it is, it's rather BIG for what it is supposed to be.

[Noyga]

Nice picture !
BTW, I feel that (for the fire fairies) the colored version looks too much like a shyde, it should look that something different, some kind of flying fire mage fairy...
It should probably have blue, white or yellow parts instead of green, since unlike normal elves unit (if this unit is really an elf) they won't have a defense boost in forest, and will probably be lawful instead of neutral.