Enemy Moves Hard To See on Gray Tiles

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Inuyasha
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Enemy Moves Hard To See on Gray Tiles

Post by Inuyasha » November 26th, 2005, 10:46 am

Has anyone noticed that it's really hard to check enemy moves on gray tiles? It depends on what type of screen you have but I have this problem on my home computer and many other people have said they have the same problem. Maybe the color could be changed to something that contrasts better? Also in that vein, I was wondering if it would be possible to check which enemy moves will overlap, specifically, which of your units can be double teamed or triple teamed by enemy units. This would be a great timesaver and would help speed up those slow multiplayer games a great deal. I guess the general idea would be to index your opponents threat rating graphically. Because sure, I know a half dead enemy shaman might be near my leader, but I wouldn't give that the same consideration, as say a fully healed Red Mage. Just my two cents if anyone can help. Thanks to the devs for the great game by the way.

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Re: Enemy Moves Hard To See on Gray Tiles

Post by ott » November 27th, 2005, 7:47 am

Inuyasha wrote:Has anyone noticed that it's really hard to check enemy moves on gray tiles?
Do you have a screenshot extract to illustrate what you mean? It has never seemed a big problem to me, though we have had complaints that on certain colour palettes highlighted castle hexes at night are not distinguishable from those that are not highlighted.
I was wondering if it would be possible to check which enemy moves will overlap, specifically, which of your units can be double teamed or triple teamed by enemy units.
Thanks to Rusty Russell who submitted a patch, and Isaac who committed it, this is now in trunk.
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Eleazar
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Re: Enemy Moves Hard To See on Gray Tiles

Post by Eleazar » November 29th, 2005, 4:13 am

ott wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:Has anyone noticed that it's really hard to check enemy moves on gray tiles?
Do you have a screenshot extract to illustrate what you mean?...
Here's an example. The Paladin's possible movements are highlighted. It's certainly not easy to distinguish which hill and forest hexes he can move to. But, on my honor, he can reach some of the castle hexes and not others. Can you tell which are which?
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Eleazar
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Post by Eleazar » November 29th, 2005, 4:42 am

Could we do something like this instead? (Please overlook my sloppy "hex" selections).

The violet overlay effect was produced by dimming the RGB values to 85%,65%,80% respectively. That should be just as easy on the CPU, right?

As a change in value AND hue it has the virtue of being easily visible against any terrain we might ever make.
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Jetrel
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Post by Jetrel » November 29th, 2005, 6:27 am

Eleazar wrote:Could we do something like this instead? (Please overlook my sloppy "hex" selections).

The violet overlay effect was produced by dimming the RGB values to 85%,65%,80% respectively. That should be just as easy on the CPU, right?

As a change in value AND hue it has the virtue of being easily visible against any terrain we might ever make.
You know, that's one of the most sensible things I've seen in a long time, and should probably solve most of this problem for good, whilst still being ridiculously simple to code.

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Post by deserter » November 29th, 2005, 7:11 am

This is great! Maybe a bit paler shade though...
:)

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Re: Enemy Moves Hard To See on Gray Tiles

Post by guest » November 29th, 2005, 7:59 am

ott wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:Has anyone noticed that it's really hard to check enemy moves on gray tiles?
Do you have a screenshot extract to illustrate what you mean? It has never seemed a big problem to me, though we have had complaints that on certain colour palettes highlighted castle hexes at night are not distinguishable from those that are not highlighted.
https://gna.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=4169[url] and as follows to Savannah.

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Post by JW » November 29th, 2005, 11:57 am

Eleazar wrote:Could we do something like this instead? (Please overlook my sloppy "hex" selections).

The violet overlay effect was produced by dimming the RGB values to 85%,65%,80% respectively. That should be just as easy on the CPU, right?

As a change in value AND hue it has the virtue of being easily visible against any terrain we might ever make.
Again, Eleazar, your graphical representations give me hope for the advancement of the game. =)

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ivanovic
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Post by ivanovic » November 29th, 2005, 12:51 pm

Another idea we had about this when playing was to have something like an outline around the hexes you can go to. Don't know how hard this would be to implement. At least the "new" version is easy to see. Though I (personally) do not like this color too much... ;)

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Post by Eleazar » November 29th, 2005, 1:07 pm

ivanovic wrote:Another idea we had about this when playing was to have something like an outline around the hexes you can go to. Don't know how hard this would be to implement. At least the "new" version is easy to see. Though I (personally) do not like this color too much... ;)
The color does look kinda ugly in this screenshot. If i get the word from a coder that such tweaking of RGB values is viable, i'll do some tests on various backgrounds to try to find a better ballance between "pleasing" and "obvious".

I wonder if a different "color" should be used for "Best Possible Enemy moves"?
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Post by guest » November 29th, 2005, 1:50 pm

Eleazar wrote:
ivanovic wrote:Another idea we had about this when playing was to have something like an outline around the hexes you can go to. Don't know how hard this would be to implement. At least the "new" version is easy to see. Though I (personally) do not like this color too much... ;)
The color does look kinda ugly in this screenshot. If i get the word from a coder that such tweaking of RGB values is viable, i'll do some tests on various backgrounds to try to find a better ballance between "pleasing" and "obvious".

I wonder if a different "color" should be used for "Best Possible Enemy moves"?
If you find a good colour, using one colour only would probably be the best choice for both. Conceptually simple - both have to do with movement, and aesthetically pleasing - to not create a confusion of different colours in the play interface.

PS. Even if you find me respond to some of your work with critique and/or suggestions, I'd like you to know that what you are doing is "a very good thing that has happened to Wesnoth UI". As someone else wrote, it is encouraging to see your work.

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Eleazar
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Post by Eleazar » December 3rd, 2005, 3:31 pm

OK i did some more mixing.
I think RGB at 77%,67%,72% is about as subtile as it can get and still be noticable in all(most?) situations.

guest wrote:PS. Even if you find me respond to some of your work with critique and/or suggestions, I'd like you to know that what you are doing is "a very good thing that has happened to Wesnoth UI". As someone else wrote, it is encouraging to see your work.
Guest, thanks.
I often don't agree with the critiques other's provide, but i do (usually) :)appreciate them. I think positive and negative critque is equally valuable in this project.
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Last edited by Eleazar on December 3rd, 2005, 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity

Naeddyr
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Post by Naeddyr » December 3rd, 2005, 4:20 pm

How difficult/costly would it be to use some sort of graphical filter, like blur, to show that something is out of focus? Or you could go with a more traditional approach and overlay out of focus tiles with black/transparent pixels at 50% density. :D

EDIT:

After checking it out, the blur doesn't really work. :|
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Kestenvarn
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Post by Kestenvarn » December 3rd, 2005, 11:09 pm

That change makes it a lot easier to tell the difference on castle tiles. Would a color other than magenta work okay, too?
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Emmanovi
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Post by Emmanovi » December 4th, 2005, 9:51 am

I like the green, but you have to think about grassland...

Pick a colour that doesn't match any current tiles. I think magneta works.
If white was black and black was white, what would happen to zebra crossings?

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