Help needed defining team rgb values for unit graphics

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Eleazar
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Post by Eleazar »

I think we've gone too far in increasing the size of the loyalist leaders.
As you can see from this images sorted by level, The leader unit is taller and larger than it's fellows of the same level. I believe this is a mistake.
The loyalist leaders are actually weaker than the fighters of the same level, yet here they look noticably stronger.

While the general should look "grander" with bigger plume, cape, fancier armor, i don't believe he should physically much stronger the the halberdier or royal guard. (I.E. the general should have some of Neo's bling)

The General and Marshal have grown to roughly the size of Trolls, and unless we carefully tuck the weapons in there's not room for the units (such as trolls) to get much larger.

I'm not against creeping biggerism per se but here IMO we've creeped too big. I'm not eager to see a snowball start rolling that will eventually require most of the unit graphics to be radically redone.
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Last edited by Eleazar on February 28th, 2006, 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Tux2B »

Gosh! I had noticed how big the lvl4 human leader was, but now it seems that the other units are also getting like that :shock:
I hope this will be changed (or otherwise I'll just keep using the old graphics, it is also a solution).
The whole line is getting giant!
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Darth Fool
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Post by Darth Fool »

Not surprisingly, I agree whole-hearted.y.

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Jetrel
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Post by Jetrel »

Reasons for making them bigger:
• Differentiation. Since all the units are the same color set, now, units must be significantly different in shape.

• Psychological cues - making them slightly bigger than the rest of their races makes it obvious that they are the leaders. Also makes the level progression more obvious.

I seem to remember DFool complaining about a lack of differentiation in shape. Now that I've delivered that in spades, we're complaining about something else, eh?

Make a decision - Do you want differentiation or consistency?


I'm voting for differentiation, by simply not being willing to draw these over again. Those two might not be completely mutually exclusive, but they are rather so. Want it that badly? Redraw it yourself. And please do a good job, when you do.

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Post by Darth Fool »

Jetryl wrote:Reasons for making them bigger:
• Differentiation. Since all the units are the same color set, now, units must be significantly different in shape.

• Psychological cues - making them slightly bigger than the rest of their races makes it obvious that they are the leaders. Also makes the level progression more obvious.

I seem to remember DFool complaining about a lack of differentiation in shape. Now that I've delivered that in spades, we're complaining about something else, eh?

Make a decision - Do you want differentiation or consistency?
I understand your angst. You see inconsistency because you did not read what I have said, but what you wanted to hear or what you feared might be true. I seek differentiation between units, yes. I want consitency yes. These are not inconsistant! It is quite possible to differentiate without having units be larger! Units should be differentiated by their stance and their silohuette, and to a lesser extent, their bling. As has been pointed out elsewhere, giving units with leadership a banner to carry would be an effective standard way of showing that a unit has leadership. Making a unit larger than its cohorts of similar level would imply that the unit is stronger, which most units with leadership aren't. Also, given that you are making the argument that this was done to differentiate units, I might point out that I do not find the size difference in these examples to differentiate the units nearly as much as the other changes, and I don't find the new ones in these examples to be significantly more differentiated than the old ones, although I am sure with other examples of your improved unit graphics we no doubt would find greater differentiation.

You may recall that not too long ago I asked that the art leadership establish a firm maximum pixel height for the different races. This has not been done. Are you willing to do so at this time, or will be cursed with creeping biggerism for all time? I don't think at this time, anyone but you can effectively make a ruling on this issue.
I'm voting for differentiation, by simply not being willing to draw these over again. Those two might not be completely mutually exclusive, but they are rather so. Want it that badly? Redraw it yourself. And please do a good job, when you do.
Fine. I also understand this stance. It is after all one of the core features of open source projects that people are not forced to work on any task but are free to work on whatever tasks float their boat. However, I would argue that you are not voting for differentiation for all of the previously listed reasons, you are merely voting for working on some more interesting project. At the risk of being repetitvely redundant, could you establish maximum heights for the current races, declare that we will not have any maximum heights, or delegate the authority to someone else whose decision on the matter of race pixel height you are willing to follow in future unit artwork?

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Post by Jetrel »

(upon accepting the probable fact that no one else is gonna do it)

blah:

Note - for humans, tassle=leader. Trying to graft banners/standards on to these guys would be took much work for too little gain.
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Post by Jetrel »

I apparently goofed in making some of the team coloration for these guys.

The marshal had some major mis-colorations, and the lieutenant + general had miscolored tassles. This has all been fixed in the following files. They have also been committed to SVN.

RE: zebulon's updates to the animations - don't worry, I can fix them. It's very easy, and your time is better spent animating other units.
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Post by Darth Fool »

Jetryl wrote:I apparently goofed in making some of the team coloration for these guys.

The marshal had some major mis-colorations, and the lieutenant + general had miscolored tassles. This has all been fixed in the following files. They have also been committed to SVN.

RE: zebulon's updates to the animations - don't worry, I can fix them. It's very easy, and your time is better spent animating other units.
If you want, I ought to be able to provide you with a script that will use imageMagick (available on linux and macs) to convert the images all at once, where you would simply provide a file with the mapping of old rgb values to new rgb values. something like:

Code: Select all

12,0,15=12,0,16
13,0,16=13,0,17
and then you would execute 'colorFix.sh color_map image1.png image2.png image*.png ...'

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Post by turin »

Just wanted to ask - is there a reason that the Halberdier and Royal Guard are German soldiers from WWI? ;)
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Jetrel
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Post by Jetrel »

turin wrote:Just wanted to ask - is there a reason that the Halberdier and Royal Guard are German soldiers from WWI? ;)
Because we're trying to - as a general, not mandatory rule, to use the plumes to signify leadership. Some of the non leaders are losing them. When I get around to them, the cavaliers might be getting the spike as well.

The archers and higher-level fencers will keep the feathers in their hats, though.


Darth Fool: Thanks, but I'm not sure the color errors are that consistent. It's a quick fix, anyways, though I appreciate the help (and might look into such a thing for other jobs).
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Post by Jormungandr »

Darth Fool wrote: If you want, I ought to be able to provide you with a script that will use imageMagick (available on linux and macs) to convert the images all at once, where you would simply provide a file with the mapping of old rgb values to new rgb values. something like:

Code: Select all

12,0,15=12,0,16
13,0,16=13,0,17
and then you would execute 'colorFix.sh color_map image1.png image2.png image*.png ...'
By total coincidence, I actually just started doing something like this in an attempt to teamcolor the undead. At least for certain units, it seems to work well - and, of course, it also fixes all the animation frames at once.

By way of example, here's the skeleton, revenant, and skeleton archer teamcolored in this fashion. For the two lvl 1s, I recolored their tunics; it also caught a bit of the skeleton's axe handle (not exactly good, but not too harmful either) and the archer's fletchings (good, I think). For the revenant, it's the face of its shield. The scripts I used are also included; this version isn't generic at all, though I may take Darth Fool's idea of a mapping file and run with it if he doesn't mind.
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Darth Fool
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Post by Darth Fool »

Go for it. I am not sure that a color map file is the best way. I considered doing it all command line. I just wouldn't want to recolor everything by hand. I guess that is why I am a coder ;)

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Post by Jetrel »

New, team-colored frame for the bone-shooter, so that any work SmokemJags does is fully up-to-date:

This changes his costuming a bit; but it makes him more of a halfway point between the soul-shooter and the skeleton archer, costumewise.
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Post by Jetrel »

The bowman now needs updating, and the base frame is here (and also in SVN).

When doing this one, imitate the bow movement of the elvish fighter very closely (so much so that you should copy in the relevant parts - the bow, arms, and shoulders - of the elvish fighter and edit them to fit the appearance of the bowman). Other than that, you should mimic the old bowman's frames.


----

Also, here is the Dragoon, and the Cavalryman (images are named scout; it's old, and I wouldn't mind renaming them in this pass - SVN can do that where CVS could not before).
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scout.png
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Last edited by Jetrel on May 18th, 2006, 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Jetrel »

Etc:

Here are what the new base frames for the Lich, Dark Sorcerer, and Necromancer look like in-game (note the favorable size-comparison to the rest of the undead race).

I still have to fix that necrophage, but that should be easy.
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