+Female elvish archer units

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Elvish_Pillager
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Post by Elvish_Pillager » November 11th, 2005, 6:29 pm

The more different they are, the worse. :(
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hands
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Post by hands » November 11th, 2005, 7:19 pm

I don't have anything against the new stance. It does seem to be more feminine, but wasn't obviously feminine at first glance IMO.

The other suggestion to change the headgear to make the hair more visible might work equally well, but that's up for debate. I attached a file with some quick pixel pushing.

I don't think making both changes would be desirable, but I'd have to see the combination of the two to decide.
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elvish-archerchick_486.gif
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Post by xtifr » November 11th, 2005, 7:31 pm

Using gif animation is really annoying to those of us who have gif animation disabled (i.e. any sane, half-way competent person with a decent browser). There are cases where it's justified, but this is not one of them! You could have just posted the before and after images!

I like the new stance; I do think changes to the headgear would make the differences even more obvious. I think it's still pretty clear that it's the same unit in both cases.
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Post by Elvish_Pillager » November 11th, 2005, 7:32 pm

The headgear is one of the most obvious and distinctive parts of the unit. Changing it screws up the unit's quick recognizability.
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Post by WanderingPaladin » November 11th, 2005, 8:22 pm

Elvish Pillager wrote:The headgear is one of the most obvious and distinctive parts of the unit. Changing it screws up the unit's quick recognizability.
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Post by Cuyo Quiz » November 11th, 2005, 8:31 pm

I thought the armament was the more recognizable feature of the units. I think it looks good. Though the hair looks "hard", so it need a little more tweaking.
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Post by Eleazar » November 11th, 2005, 8:57 pm

hands wrote:The other suggestion to change the headgear to make the hair more visible might work equally well, but that's up for debate. I attached a file with some quick pixel pushing.
Ya gotta look at the big picture.

Type of hat, or lack of hat (as EP has said) is one of the major distinguishing features of the elvish archer line, and to a lesser degree of all elvish units.

to compare unit trees, see: http://wesnoth.slack.it/units.cgi

xtifr, sorry you dont' like animated gifs. I know they can be used in very tacky ways, but they are one of the accepted file formats on this forum. If you think they are so bad, lobby keep them from being accepted attachments.
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elvish archer.jpg
current graphics
elvish archer.jpg (26.56 KiB) Viewed 3795 times
Last edited by Eleazar on November 11th, 2005, 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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hands
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Post by hands » November 11th, 2005, 9:16 pm

Eleazar wrote:Ya gotta look at the big picture.

Type of hat, or lack of hat (as EP has said) is one of the major distinguishing features of the elvish archer line, and to a lesser degree of all elvish units.
Now, the big picture's a bit easier to understand. Being able to see the different levels more easily helps with the discussion.

I still like the idea of making the hair visible for the Lv0 version, but I can understand the motivation to make more of a change now that I see how the archer advances. Here is a combination of the two. If the difference with the Lv0 unit is more obvious, the visual cues might be easier to notice with the better units (maybe?).

EDIT: Changed to animated gif with all three images.
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elvish-archerchick-3.gif
elvish-archerchick-3.gif (4.78 KiB) Viewed 3767 times

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Jetrel
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Post by Jetrel » November 11th, 2005, 9:43 pm

hands wrote:I don't have anything against the new stance. It does seem to be more feminine, but wasn't obviously feminine at first glance IMO.

The other suggestion to change the headgear to make the hair more visible might work equally well, but that's up for debate. I attached a file with some quick pixel pushing.
I kinda did the exact opposite, because it made the units look too different. Indeed, they originally did not have hats on the female versions, and I later added them in.


I must say that yeah, I wish something more could be done to enhance the female versions. I wish I could better articulate that hallmark of female figuring - the hourglass curve and hips, but it's kinda hard given that elves are already rather skinny, and the sprites are so darn small.

I'll take a look at it later today, though.

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Post by xtifr » November 12th, 2005, 6:33 am

Eleazar wrote: xtifr, sorry you dont' like animated gifs. I know they can be used in very tacky ways, but they are one of the accepted file formats on this forum.
They have their legitimate uses too -- they're one of the handiest ways of reviewing an actual animation, for example -- I'm just asking (note: asking) that they not be used unless there's a good reason. I don't mind turning on animation (temporarily) in order to view an animation. Heck, that just plain makes sense! :) But just to view a static image? That's just pure, unmitigated hassle! :(

Anyway, I do want to thank you for starting the discussion. It has bugged me for a while that it's so hard to tell the male archers from the female. It's not a big deal, but it's never seemed quite right to me. I'm not real picky on the method used, though, so I'll let you guys hash it out, but I'm glad something is being done. Thanks again.
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Post by Ganter » November 12th, 2005, 11:17 am

IMO Eleazar's new pose is better. The hair is okay but changing both would be to much. And because of all the other elvish units not changing headgear the new archer shouldn't either. BTW all Wesnoth units are stereotypical. I have made my point: Change to Eleazar's first change.
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Post by Ganter » November 12th, 2005, 12:20 pm

Also the female marksman is to much like the male version. Could you do something about that too?
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Post by irrevenant » November 13th, 2005, 1:07 am

this is an aside, but maybe both the male and female Elvish Archers could have their hair down (with headwear still distinguishing the later levels)? They look good like that...

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Post by Kestenvarn » November 13th, 2005, 2:04 am

Am I one of the only ones that thinks they look fine as-is?

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Post by Zhukov » November 13th, 2005, 2:08 am

The 'feet together' pose for the female looks downright uncomfortable. Nothing to do with stereotypes - she just appears to be about to fall over. :)
scott wrote:I don't have any personal experience firing a bow in combat, but I imagine it would be just as hard firing with your legs as far apart as the male elf has.
Just a little point of infomation, the "correct" bow posture (that is, the one they will teach you at an archery club, or the one an athlete uses) has the archer standing side-on to the target, with feet shoulder width apart. But whether an Elf should conform to that, who knows :?:
But if this picture is just for the base (not attacking) graphic I don't see how that matters.

The lack of cap/hood makes her more obviously female, I can still tell it is the same unit.

Personally I never had trouble distinguishing (sp?) between male and female rangers/marksmen/avengers/sharpshooters. It was only ever the basic lvl1 archers that were hard to tell apart.

Perhaps the 'feet together' stance would look more natural if she looked more balanced, make her legs straight perhaps?

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