Request: New unpassable terrain

Post by **fmunoz** » July 3rd, 2005, 7:49 pm

Elvish Pillager wrote:No, it really wouldn't work. If a Gryphon has a 1-hex wingspan, then a flying Yeti has a 3-hex wingspan.

But they dont have wings, they fly using ....
Hyperspace powers!!!!!

OTOH ... Nasty looking mountains will do.. or maybe some king of magical cloudy barrier...

King Arthur · Post by **King Arthur** » July 3rd, 2005, 8:54 pm

As for Gryphons, maybe not something they can't fly over, but something they couldn't survive if go there. Maybe a volcano or a frozen mountain. You see, a Gryphon may survive a frozen mountain, but not the Gryphon's rider, because of the high cold, snow and wind.

How about a frozen mountain that costs 12 movement to pass it? Even a quick gryphon master won't cross it, but then you change the speed of the grown gryphon, with no rider, to 12 (suposing that he can fly more when not carying a dwarf on his back).

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » July 3rd, 2005, 9:18 pm

fmunoz wrote:But they dont have wings, they fly using ....
Hyperspace powers!!!!!

Like once they've fallen far enough they go back upwards faster than the speed of light and then start falling again?

Stigmatix · Post by **Stigmatix** » July 3rd, 2005, 9:31 pm

King Arthur wrote:As for Gryphons, maybe not something they can't fly over, but something they couldn't survive if go there. Maybe a volcano or a frozen mountain. You see, a Gryphon may survive a frozen mountain, but not the Gryphon's rider, because of the high cold, snow and wind.

How about a frozen mountain that costs 12 movement to pass it? Even a quick gryphon master won't cross it, but then you change the speed of the grown gryphon, with no rider, to 12 (suposing that he can fly more when not carying a dwarf on his back).

Perfect.

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » July 3rd, 2005, 10:05 pm

Don't be silly. Terrains do not have a number of moves associated with them. If you want a Gryphon to be able to cross it (which you shouldn't), then you can give the gryphon however many moves on it as you like.

King Arthur · Post by **King Arthur** » July 3rd, 2005, 10:37 pm

Yes, that's right I forgot, so how about making impossible for all to move except the Gryphon? After all, why shouldn't the Gryphon move on them?

This would fit the "physics of really big walls" because Gryphons can fly really high, and wouldn't ruin the games, since players only control mounted Gryphons. Well, perhaps on that Gryphons campaign, I don't know if there is any unpassable wall there.

Post by **Dave** » July 3rd, 2005, 11:16 pm

King Arthur wrote:Yes, that's right I forgot, so how about making impossible for all to move except the Gryphon? After all, why shouldn't the Gryphon move on them?

Because sometimes scenario designers want a barrier that is completely impassable. Having any units which can move through the barrier messes this up.

David

Simons Mith · Post by **Simons Mith** » July 4th, 2005, 12:59 am

Void is one sensible way to do it; in a few cases, a lava wall or something might do it (esp. with animated lava); stars (i.e. a literal edge of the world a la Discworld); a glowing magical barrier; permanently greyed-out terrain to represent a politcal border that units dare not cross; an ordinary wall would do under some circumstances because not all scenarios have flying creatures and not all scenarios have hexes miles wide; finally, how about having the terrain fade away from the current beautiful pixel art to hand-drawn line art and then to white paper or yellow parchment? Perhaps even with a bit of table beyond? That would be quite an elegant way to do it. done right, it would violate the spirit of the game less than an improbable chain of volcanoes or something.

Post by **fmunoz** » July 4th, 2005, 2:18 am

I agree with Simmon...All his ideas seems nicer than tall mountains...
Also there are a other units that fly, not just the ones avalaible in multiplayer

King Arthur · Post by **King Arthur** » July 4th, 2005, 3:02 am

The yellow parchment idea sounds great. And an uncrossable wall wouldn't ruin the spirit of the game, at least if it is not overly used.

Post by **Jetrel** » July 4th, 2005, 9:14 am

High mountains are great for a terrain that blocks everything except high flying units, and yet works in areas where the canyon would not.

Void will work everywhere else.
Void works as well as a "world edge", but is less distracting than other suggestions for implementing it. I've seen such a thing used to good effect, in games like "Cythera", or "Jewel of Arabia"), but because wesnoth is neither a dream world, nor is being split apart by wild magic, we should really try to make the terrain as low-key as possible.

Terrain fading into the canvas, per se, is a really neat idea, but would be obscenely hard to do.

Magical barriers are even dumber than volcanos, really, just because magical things should be extremely uncommon. Otherwise they're not magical and special anymore, just mundane. A colossal magic barrier might be fine for some special story, but not as an element of normal use.

Post by **Jetrel** » July 4th, 2005, 9:20 am

Jetryl wrote:High mountains are great for a terrain that blocks everything except high flying units, and yet works in areas where the canyon would not.

And the more I think about it, there's nothing wrong with saying that people cannot fly over certain mountains, even with gryphons.

For example, people cannot fly to the top of Mount Everest in a helicopter, because the air becomes too thin to generate lift. Not to mention that, but it's hard to breathe up there, and it's mercilessly cold, both of which would be significant factors against a biological creature going up there.

For now, lets use void, but after that, use the high-mountains. We could call them "Crags".

scott · Post by **scott** » July 4th, 2005, 12:07 pm

Despite its seeming disconnet from reality, I would say people readily accept the cavewall as an impassable terrain in their minds without regard as to why gryphons can't fly over it. I wonder if high mountains would enjoy the same treatment.

Woodwizzle · Post by **Woodwizzle** » July 4th, 2005, 2:41 pm

I'd be ok with super high mountains, but I'd really prefer something that made a little more sense, as I'd think gryphons could fly over it.

What about something like plagueland or diseased land, an area so corrupted or infected or radioactive or what not that anyone who enters will surely die?

Post by **turin** » July 4th, 2005, 2:43 pm

Woodwizzle wrote:I'd be ok with super high mountains, but I'd really prefer something that made a little more sense, as I'd think gryphons could fly over it.

What about something like plagueland or diseased land, an area so corrupted or infected or radioactive or what not that anyone who enters will surely die?

I don't think we want to bring magic into the picture, if at all possible.

I think really high mountains is good. Think of it this way - they're so cold, that even though the gryphon could fly up there, he'd freeze to death.