Goblin Rouser

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Jetrel
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Post by Jetrel »

My apologies - I believe you. It didn't quite look like neo's art (notably the shaft of the standard, but I could've sworn I saw his name by it, which means I either remembered wrong, or the forum had a bug.

Whatever.

Personally, I don't mind the standard being used, but the concerns about animation stand.

Perhaps a tall spear with a tattered flag attached to it might work better than the "skull on a stick" people have been proposing. Mostly because: 1] it still intuitively implies leadership (which I don't think a skull does), and 2] it can be used as a weapon as well 3] it connects him to the unit he levels from.
Fortify
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Post by Fortify »

I like the idea of a L1 Standard Bearer unit with leadership. It essentially provides leadership only to L0 units(Goblin Spearmen). This seems a logical upgrade path for the Goblin Spearman.

They advance and hold up the flag to boost other spearmen. With the right tweaks in the stats this could be a good tree for the spearman. An alternate path to the Impaler.
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Breeblebox
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Post by Breeblebox »

Ok, I went back and had a bit of a tool around. Came up with this based on the premise that the unit might become a level 1 option for the Goblin Spearman. The differences are mainly in the flag, which now proudly displays the Breeble standard. Also, I took on board what Jetryl said about the spear linking him to the unit he levelled from, which sounded sensible to me.

If this is the preferred incarnation, I can set about animating him with perhaps a little more depth than he had originally.

...of course, this would mean he gets to keep his spear attacks.

Thoughts anyone?
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scott
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Post by scott »

His right arm looks a little short. It may be that his elbow is supposed to be behind him. What if you moved his fist SW a couple pixels and compared the two?
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quartex
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Post by quartex »

It looks a lot better. I like the idea that the spear got turned into a flagpole. The right arm does need lengthening. And I liked the tiny skull on top of the old flag, why not stick one on top of this flagpole as well. Orcs love skulls! ;-) Overall it looks a lot better, and good art does make people more enthusiastic about a unit.
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Jetrel
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Post by Jetrel »

quartex wrote:It looks a lot better. I like the idea that the spear got turned into a flagpole. The right arm does need lengthening.
Aye.
quartex wrote:And I liked the tiny skull on top of the old flag, why not stick one on top of this flagpole as well. Orcs love skulls! ;-)
careful. We don't want this to turn into the sin that is Warcraft 3's undead.
Still, though, in this case, it wouldn't hurt. :)

I would also suggest losing the sword. This guy has a spear for a flag, and he uses that as his weapon.
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Post by Woodwizzle »

the spear looks like it is upside down. the point should be above the flag.
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Post by joshbosh321 »

Woodwizzle wrote:the spear looks like it is upside down. the point should be above the flag.
The spear is upside down. I believe it was meant to be. :D

However, I do agree that the spear point probably should stick out above the flag - I believe that this is the traditional way to do it.
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quartex
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Post by quartex »

Yes, sometimes flags or pennants were attached to spears or pikes right below the head, but it doesn't have to be that way. I like the idea of a long spear with a flag at one end and a point at the other.

If you got rid of the sword, this unit could have a cool attack animation, imagine him attacking with the bottom (the point) of the spear, instead of just using the sword. We don't have many 2-headed pole weapons, and that's why I think a long spear with a flag at one end and a spearhead at the other could have some great animations.

Of course this guy would also need a leadership animation. If we kept the sword, he's probably just raise the sword and make it sparkle. But is there animation animation we can think of that's more original? Perhaps waving the flag back and forth above his head?
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turin
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Post by turin »

if you have the spear tip at the opposite end of the spear, when you hold the spear to attack the flag would be getting in the way. yuo would normally hold it about where the flag is, and you can't grab the flag without damaging it... :)
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Breeblebox
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Post by Breeblebox »

Here is a comparison.

The one on the left is the original for entropy's sake.

The one in the middle is identical to the last one I posted, but has the spear reversed so as to affix the flag at the pointy end. I think this illustrates why I chose the less conventional way around. The spear has had to become much longer than it was, and much longer than the one the spearman carries. As for attaching a skull at the top as well, nice idea, but it would have to grow yet larger still. (Pinochio?)

For arguments sake, I have included the latest version of the previous one. It has a longer sword arm as suggested by scott and quartex, and a little more red highlighting on the sash/ flag.

I have to say, I prefer the one on the right, mostly because the composition of the unit as a whole is more balanced.
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quartex
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Post by quartex »

Looks great. As I said before, I like the one on the right the best. I'm curious to see what your attack, defend and leadership animations would look like. Don't worry too much about realism. I think cool looking animations are more important that strictly realistic ones.
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turin
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Post by turin »

i prefer the one in the middle. :) i don't exactly see a long spear as being necessarily bad.

also, about the spear magically growing... no big deal. see spearman -> pikeman. and pikeman -> halbardier magically grows a blade on the spear... :)
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freim
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Post by freim »

turin wrote:i prefer the one in the middle. :)
Me too. Having it upside down just looks weird.
scott
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Post by scott »

I though the sword was going to go away. Is he going to have a blade attack, then? Or just a spear attack? If no spear attack then he doesn't need it for the standard.
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