Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Production of artwork for the game by regular contributors takes place here.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby thespaceinvader » June 29th, 2011, 12:55 am

I believe it's just to more easily distinguish the three levels.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
 
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK

Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Sangel » June 29th, 2011, 1:57 am

thespaceinvader wrote:I believe it's just to more easily distinguish the three levels.

:eng: Actually, it's because the original Iron Mauler was arrived at based upon a heavily modified Orcish Warrior frankensteined with the Shock Trooper and then finally reworked by fmunoz; the hammer was originally stolen from the troll warrior in order to better fit the Orc Warrior's arm position. Of course, this was way back in the day when the art I was working on was considered good enough to make it into Wesnoth, which is very ancient history, and entirely irrelevant to the current conversation. :D
Attachments
siegetrooperv1.3c.png
siegetrooperv1.3c.png (1.54 KiB) Viewed 2787 times
"Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Sangel
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 2232
Joined: March 26th, 2004, 10:58 pm
Location: New York, New York

Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Atz » June 29th, 2011, 4:58 am

Sleepwalker wrote:Atz's helmet is like the one Jetrel joked about on page 1, which does not bode well I.E too much like a bucket.

Since it was supposed to be a bucket helm, I'll take that as a compliment, haha.

Also, I'm absolutely horrible at feet, which is why I stole the existing feet. They always look deformed. Always. I've spent hours poking at feet and the only way they ever look decent is by accident. If anyone has mad foot-drawing skillz and wants to share their technique...



Anyways, sleepwalker's versions look good, although I share artisticdude and Zerovirus' concern about the height of the Shock Trooper. I also agree with Zerovirus that the shield is a bit too busy. If it were up to me I'd choose a smoother rendition, like on TSI's version.
Atz
Art Contributor
 
Posts: 313
Joined: August 21st, 2008, 2:22 am

Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Jetrel » June 29th, 2011, 7:15 am

You know, since we're doing such an overhaul, to hell with it - let's give the L3 a morning star too. Why not?

Atz wrote:Anyways, sleepwalker's versions look good, although I share artisticdude and Zerovirus' concern about the height of the Shock Trooper.


Likewise - the HI looks great, but the ST needs to be considerably taller to fit proportions - it's okay if the HI line is bigger by a bit than all other human units of comparable level.

(also the requisite: "as expected, sleepwalker's new costumes look great". ;) )
Play Frogatto & Friends - a finished, open-source adventure game!
User avatar
Jetrel
Art Director
 
Posts: 7240
Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 3:36 am
Location: Midwest US

Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Sleepwalker » July 1st, 2011, 11:46 am

Sangel: Hehe the bit of Wesnoth trivia is interesting.

Atz: The only things I can say is... Look at all the other sprites and how they are done. Exaggerate shoe features, like soles, heels, linings. The toe end is usually brightest while the heel end is shadowed.

Jetrel, Artisticdude, Zerovirus: Ok his height and the shield smoothness should be more to our liking now? Or do you propose more changes to the shield?

Hmm I like flails. More units should have them. :P Instead of giving everyone a mace the lvl2 and 3 got flails. Fret not though as they do have mace heads at the end of the chain... Hmm I hope the Iron Mauler isn't too over the top lol, cause I really like how it turned out. Perhaps a bit too warhammer-ish?
Attachments
IronMauler.png
IronMauler.png (20.5 KiB) Viewed 2604 times
Sometimes we must be hurt in order to grow, fail in order to know, lose in order to gain, and sometimes we must have to be broken so we can be whole again...
- Nercy Masayon
User avatar
Sleepwalker
Art Contributor
 
Posts: 416
Joined: October 23rd, 2008, 6:34 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby thespaceinvader » July 1st, 2011, 2:48 pm

Looove.

I think the IM's flail arm could do with being maybe a pixel wider, though, it looks a bit skinnier than the rest of him at present.

On another note, I've had this in by PM from shiremct

Image

It's OK, but I think it's losing a bit of definition in the chest plate.

EDIT: I think one thing to really be said for these is that the shield looks SO much better slanted out than perfectly vertical. It adds to the bulk of the unit without actually making the person bigger, and it takes away a perpendicular, and those rarely look good.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
 
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK

Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby artisticdude » July 1st, 2011, 6:20 pm

:D
thespaceinvader wrote:Looove.
Emphasis mine!

:hmm: I know you're gonna hate my guts for saying this, but I actually would prefer it if he were a tad taller. Don't get me wrong, right now he's a perfect size for a lvl 3, but I've always thought of these guys as being even larger than the average lvl 3 sprite, just because they're supposed to be such massive-bodied guys and their armor is so huge. But this is just my personal preference speaking, and it's probably not really worth bothering about anyway.

Fantastic job! :)
"I'm never wrong. One time I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken."
User avatar
artisticdude
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 2423
Joined: December 15th, 2009, 12:37 pm
Location: Somewhere in the middle of everything

Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby shiremct » July 2nd, 2011, 1:16 am

I've made some changes based on Sleepwalker and TSI's versions of the new Heavy Infantry line being bounced around in the Art Development Forum. I'm requesting permission to post this there for further feedback and potentially a Level 3 version later if feedback is positive. Thanks!
Attachments
unit2.PNG
unit2.PNG (6.97 KiB) Viewed 2460 times
User avatar
shiremct
Art Contributor
 
Posts: 116
Joined: August 1st, 2007, 9:23 pm

Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Atz » July 2nd, 2011, 3:58 am

Love Sleepwalker's new versions.

I don't like the breastplate on shiremct's version of the ST. I think it looks too much like a naked torso which happens to be a metallic colour, rather than actual armour plates. I know moulded breastplates actually existed, but given that this unit line is supposed to be a huge clanking thing, I think it needs armour which is obviously bulky and mechanical.
Atz
Art Contributor
 
Posts: 313
Joined: August 21st, 2008, 2:22 am

Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Sleepwalker » July 2nd, 2011, 1:05 pm

^^ what Atz said. It's a matter of taste mostly I guess. Some of the metallic reflectivity got lost on the ST and I'm not sure if the extra colors really add anything. If you went for a slightly rusty look on the ST shoulders then you succeeded though. Hmm I like what you did with the shoulder shape, I'll grab that I think ;).

Hmm sure, I could make him a pixel or two taller. With a beefier arm. :)
Sometimes we must be hurt in order to grow, fail in order to know, lose in order to gain, and sometimes we must have to be broken so we can be whole again...
- Nercy Masayon
User avatar
Sleepwalker
Art Contributor
 
Posts: 416
Joined: October 23rd, 2008, 6:34 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby LordBob » July 20th, 2011, 4:08 pm

Been doing some catching up of the forums and stumbled on this thread. Congrats, overall, the new HI line looks wicked ! If I may, though, the decreased size of the shield in the L1-L2 units is a bit of a bother. Realism notwithstanding, the large tower shield on the L3 is a very clear visual translation of the unit's huge defensesresistances - something which we may want to have for all levels, considering defensesresistances are constant throughout the unit line (plus, I'd say the shield designs are different enough that having them in similar size won't get in the way of unit differentionation. My 2 cents anyway.

I'm also not sure about the shield-side pauldron on the L3 : at the moment, I can't make out what it's supposed to be.

Edit: was refering to resistances, not defenses (which, it has been pointed to me, are rather crappy for this unit)
User avatar
LordBob
Portrait Director
 
Posts: 1194
Joined: December 8th, 2008, 8:18 pm
Location: Bordeaux, France

Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Jetrel » August 29th, 2011, 9:09 am

This would be a second guy elevated to art contrib for trying to make useful contributions to active work. Thanks, enchilado. This is a response to a PM he made, which I'm just inserting into this conversation.


- it looks good, and you've clearly got some good skills at pixel art; we'd love to have your contributions. In fact, I will give you art-contrib privileges so you can directly contribute to that discussion.
- there are a few really nuanced bits about pixel-art technique where it could use some improvement; for one, the chestplate is kind of a regression versus the one on the current art (one of the only good things about the current art. Because you're compulsively AAing the different tones in there, the metal isn't very reflective. The sword is another thing; unfortunately most of these are in "an image is worth a thousand words" territory, so I'll need to do an edit.
- as a point of style, we're not changing to the realistic pauldrons you've drawn. I see your points, and agree with them, but we're blatantly choosing to dispense with realism on that point, because realistic pauldrons, like much historical armor that sacrificed looks for functionality ... sacrificed looks. The realistic pauldrons make for weak-looking shoulders. Although ours could be handwaved with a nod to flat, japanese "sode" (samurai pauldrons), honestly, ours in function are epaulettes - they're "pretend armor", designed purely to look cool and distinctive by making the shoulders look bigger.

Not to mention that they're a unique wesnoth motif shared by dozens of other units which are permanently finished. We're not budging on that point.


enchilado wrote:Hi,

I saw that a lot of the Loyalist units were being redrawn and decided I'd see if I was good enough to help.

This is what I've done so far as a possible new Royal Guard, but it's not mainline quality yet. Since I can't post in the art development board, I thought I'd PM it to you and ask if it's a good start, and whether I should keep going with it or not, and if so - what needs improvement?

ImageImage

-- enchilado
Play Frogatto & Friends - a finished, open-source adventure game!
User avatar
Jetrel
Art Director
 
Posts: 7240
Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 3:36 am
Location: Midwest US

Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby enchilado » August 30th, 2011, 12:57 pm

I'm not sure why I'm getting Art Contributor status when I haven't contributed anything yet, but thank you. :)

Ge.tt seems to have changed the locations of uploaded files, which is why the hotlink is dead. Here it is again:

Image
(Hopefully it won't be moved again...)

So, I tried working on the things you mentioned - I removed most of the AA from the chestplate and tried to make it shinier, and also brighter on one side. I wasn't exactly sure how to improve the sword, so I barely touched that.

I then redraw the pauldrons - epaulettes - larger and dome-shaped, but they still look like they're just stuck on over the top rather than being part of the armour. The last ones had this problem too, and I'm still not sure why or how to fix it.

I also made him shorter (he was a pixel too tall), sketched a redraw of the plate skirt (IMO the old one was too... simple, or something) and outlined a cape which would hopefully make him look more impressive and distinctive.

ImageImage

Is it an improvement?
User avatar
enchilado
 
Posts: 100
Joined: March 25th, 2011, 8:44 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby artisticdude » August 31st, 2011, 2:44 pm

I also made him shorter (he was a pixel too tall)
Pixel too tall? I beg to differ, now he is actually 2 pixels shorter than Sleepwalker's new halbardier (not including the gold spike on the top of the halbardier's helmet). Add that to the fact that the halbardier is looking downwards whereas the royal guard seems to be looking even slightly upwards, and the height difference becomes even more of an issue. Aside from that:

1. -I get the general impression that the unit should be, just, BIGGER. Buffer, taller... right now I feel like he's more of a level 2 than a level 3, comparing him to the other revamped loyalist sprites.

2. -The sword looks better now, although there are still some issues (which Jetrel will definitely fix in his edit, so I won't bother going into detail about that)

3. -I'm not sure I like the cape. As cool as the idea is, a cape would hamper a swordsman's ability to wield his weapon.

4. -The helmet is currently the same size as the swordsman's. Given that this is the level 3, I'd suggest making the helmet slightly larger.

5. -I'd suggest adding more gold bits/trimming. This will not only greatly aid in delivering the visual impression that this is a powerful, high-level unit, but it will also help differentiate the unit from the previous level.

6. -Use more contrast in the outlines of the armor pieces that would be in shadow. Sleepwalker's new sprites are an excellent example of this.

7. -The shield feels rather... flimsy? A thicker rim should do the trick, as well as visually assist the impression that this is a strong warrior capable of dealing out massive amounts of damage.

8. -The unit seems to be leaning backwards slightly, although I'm not entirely sure why. Perhaps it's and artifact of the helmet, which appears to be looking upward?
"I'm never wrong. One time I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken."
User avatar
artisticdude
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 2423
Joined: December 15th, 2009, 12:37 pm
Location: Somewhere in the middle of everything

Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby beetlenaut » August 31st, 2011, 6:31 pm

I think the cape improves the look and bulk of the unit enough that we should forget about how practical it is.
Campaigns: Dead Water
The Founding of Borstep
Secrets of the Ancients
User avatar
beetlenaut
Developer
 
Posts: 2075
Joined: December 8th, 2007, 3:21 am
Location: Washington State

PreviousNext

Return to Art Development

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests