Status of Loyalist Baseframes

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Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Blarumyrran » September 8th, 2011, 8:03 am

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    Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

    Postby shiremct » September 8th, 2011, 11:14 am

    Blast! Haha, it IS wrong, I didn't even notice it. The shield shouldn't be behind the cape like that. That will need fixing one way or another.

    Update:
    unit.PNG
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    Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

    Postby thespaceinvader » September 11th, 2011, 8:38 am

    'Nother suggested edit, this time from vranca:
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    Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

    Postby artisticdude » September 11th, 2011, 1:20 pm

    thespaceinvader wrote:'Nother suggested edit, this time from vranca:
    Mm, I can't see the images. Anyone else have that problem, or is it just me?
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    Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

    Postby Gambit » September 11th, 2011, 1:42 pm

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    Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

    Postby shiremct » September 11th, 2011, 6:47 pm

    Pending any possible inspirations from Vranca's version or further crits, here is a completed result of my take on the Royal Guard, alongside the other new sprites in the line for comparison/fit.

    Using a different breastplate design, It would be possible to put the SoF insigne on, but I'm partial to this... layered?; segmented?... whatever design. I'm not crazy about the pauldrons, but couldn't come up with anything more creative at the time and these are servicable I suppose.
    unit.PNG
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    EDIT: Some small edits to sort out some issues with TC colors, blue in particular, as well as an incorrect TC shade:
    unit.PNG
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    Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

    Postby thespaceinvader » September 11th, 2011, 10:50 pm

    Durnit.

    I'll sort that out in the am.
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    Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

    Postby lurker » September 13th, 2011, 7:36 pm

    Hello,

    I have not been involved in this thread, because I have not yet tried spriting, but I do have a little issue with the new Royal Guard: The unit to the left of it is supposed to be a direct predecessor, right? Well, they have very little in common. The armour is different, the shield is very different, the guy has a cape now (which btw is great), and the new helmet looks as if the head has shrunk. Why not keep a small part similar enough to be recognizable? A suitable piece seems to be the helmet and I have to say I liked the older versions better for that reason.

    I also think it would fit the new design, and to prove that, I did a no-no thing and frankensteined the lower level unit's helmet over the Royal Guard. It may be only me but I think something like that would improve the overall appearance of the unit as well as the continuity within the line.
    unit.png
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    Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

    Postby Vranca » September 15th, 2011, 4:44 pm

    I had to try my hand at the royal guard so i'm sending (Jetrel, via PM) an edit of shiremct's version.
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    Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

    Postby beetlenaut » September 15th, 2011, 9:05 pm

    I think lurker is right about the helmet, and it looks better too.

    @Vranca: You used so many small patches of gold on the bluish background that the sprite looks kind of brown from a normal distance away. I think you should use fewer, larger patches of color.
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    Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

    Postby enchilado » September 23rd, 2011, 1:38 pm

    Yay, finally got around to posting again.

    Hmm... I like the shape of shiremct's chestplate, but not the detail; IMO it makes it look somewhat cluttered and... well, I removed that to see if it looked any better. Personally, I prefer it.

    I agree with lurker on the helmet. How bad would it be, though, to copy it? The Swordsman and Lieutenant have the same chestplate. Anyway, I tried a brief edit - making it wider and splitting the eyehole, and removing the visible skin.

    About the positioning of the cape and shield: the shield is pointing back at an angle and the cape is hanging straight down, so the shield would be behind, wouldn't it? I brought the cape in front again as I was straightening it, but I may be be totally wrong about that.

    Aaand I tried redrawing the pauldrons again, because to me shiremct's looked ... strangely shaped, somehow. I don't know if mine are any better, though, and both are probably too small.

    Also just noticed Vranca's edits; I agree with beetlenaut about the dotted gold. I like the widening and gold ring above his shoes (at least on the left foot; the right one looks smaller and less precisely formed to me), but it doesn't really stand out against the cape.

    royal guard 02.png
    royal guard 02.png (6.87 KiB) Viewed 2861 times

    And now he dwarfs even the Halberdier:
    royal guard 02 comparison.png
    royal guard 02 comparison.png (10.33 KiB) Viewed 2861 times


    (I feel somewhat that I'm posting too many minor revisions; hopefully I will be forgiven on the grounds that it's the first time I've really worked on a Wesnoth sprite...)
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    Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

    Postby shiremct » September 24th, 2011, 5:35 pm

    And now he dwarfs even the Halberdier:

    This shouldn't be viewed as a good thing, and this is part of my issue with this massive helmet. I personally dislike the design of the swordsman's helmet, but it's not a completely unreasonable design; I feel these bucket helms that reach out to the shoulders definitely are. The unit doesn't even look human at that point and it definitely clashes with sleepwalker's new and more realistic loyalists. I also think a smaller, less flashy helmet is important to keep the unit looking like a front-line warrior and the bigger, fancier, plume-ier helms are key differentiators to the lt. -> marshal line. I'm actually in favor of dropping the plume completely and keeping it, as was mentioned earlier, for the leadership line only and going with a ridge or spike instead.

    Regardless, I think the helmet is an area that still needs work. I prefer the design of mine, but it's just not drawn quite as well as sleepwalker's right now.

    Your pauldrons do indeed look better shaped, but I'm thinking maybe this would be a good place to copy the level 2 also and go with something as close to that as possible and keep them plain steel. The TCed pauldrons are drawing too much away from the front-line soldier look IMO. It may be called a Royal Guard, but it's still the upgrade to the front-line Swordsman line.

    Regarding Vranca's version, I LOVE what you've done with the armored skirt thing, it looks great, however, I think it is probably too fancy, but if it's deemed the guy needs more bling, that may be something to look at. I also like the way you made the handle a constant color, which keeps it from becoming obscured with some TC colors. It's a detail that makes the sprite look much better, but only if it's clear.

    Regarding the cape, unless the cape is more of a cloak that wraps around the side of his body, yes, the shield should be in front of it. Hold you arm out to your side as if you were holding a shield and look at how far forward your forearm is with relation to the plane of your back. It's likely your entire forearm is actually in front of the plane of you chest.


    At this point, we really need to hear some weigh-ins from the art directors as we are moving in several different directions and I'd personally like to hear Sleepwalker's thoughts as well.
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    Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

    Postby lurker » September 25th, 2011, 7:48 am

    I personally think the problem with most of the helmets is the two eye-slits. They make the helmet look like a face, which then is way out of proportion with the rest of the body and gives it an insectoid appearance. Using one slit only should get rid of that strange impression, as is exemplified with the swordsman.
    That said, enchilado's latest version may really be a bit large. And, if there are other examples of such reuse, perhaps it would indeed be ok to take the swordsman's helmet with only minor modifications.
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    Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

    Postby shiremct » September 25th, 2011, 3:21 pm

    I agree, the two eye slits and general round shape are probably the root of the "big head mode" effect that bothers me. There are quite a large number of examples where stuff is reused over a line or even over several lines within a faction with little to no modification, so I don't think there is any issue there. I have an idea I'm gonna try fooling around with using the swordsman's helm with some minor ridging and/or color later tonight.
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    Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

    Postby Sleepwalker » September 27th, 2011, 10:59 pm

    There's lots of stuff here and it has been very interesting to read through the thread. Random thoughts coming up: I agree on the points that;

    The helmet should have a single slit, at least for a helmet shaped like this. Just personal bias.
    He shouldn't have a plume as the general/marshal shall have it. For the leadership reason and to differentiate.

    Don't make the helm bigger for no reason than that he is higher level. People can be big or small, but the head don't change size. It would be alright if it suits the design of the helmet or if details of it get bigger... But some of the helmet designs here have just been bigger in all directions, making it seem the head inside is bigger too, which is not so good.

    A thing that bothers me a lot is that every single one of the new royal guard sprites has only gotten taller in the torso area. They all have the same leg length as the swordsman. They all also have a kind of hunched up pose with their arms. Yeah I can't comment much more on the design without dealing with some of the body proportions. Anyway this is something I think should be put more weight on.

    I had to illustrate what I mean and made another version of the royal guard. Notice the higher waist. I liked shiremct's shield and cape so I grabbed that with some small shading changes. Though I think I would prefer if he goes without cape.


    And then there's some tweaked sprites of the heavy infantry line. I made the shields bigger on lvl1 and 2 as per Lordbob's reasoning. The shoulder of the shock trooper got a tweak similar to shiremct's. Also made the iron mauler 2 pixels taller and gave him a beefier arm.
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