Status of Loyalist Baseframes

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Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby artisticdude » June 10th, 2011, 4:50 pm

As I understand it, the majority of the current mainline baseframes (with the definite exception of the old-style human outlaw baseframes) are the final and finished baseframes. However, I'm not sure how the loyalists figure into this equation. I know the bowman, longbowman, master bowman and spearman sprites are final, that the royal warrior needs to be redone, and that Jetrel and Sleepwalker have been working on completely new baseframes and animations for the horsemen lines. The other loyalist sprites, however, could still use significant touch-ups, or perhaps even complete re-sprites. I was considering doing some animations for the loyalists, but I don't want to animate a sprite that needs to be significantly altered or entirely replaced, as that would just be time and effort wasted needlessly.

So, getting to the point, I was wondering what the status of the current loyalist sprites is, i.e., which ones need complete re-sprites or drastic alterations, and which ones just need some shading fixes. Even if I don't get around to animating any of them immediately, this would be useful information for future reference.

For explanation purposes, some of the most common problems I see in the current loyalist baseframes (not animations, those are a completely separate issue) are:

-lots of banding
-mirrored body parts (swordsman's/lieutenant's/sergeant's legs)
-pure black outlines
-jagged edges


I'd appreciate some feedback on this. :)
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Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Jetrel » June 11th, 2011, 2:41 am

List:
Mages = final
HI = don't have much for animations, so tweaking is still a possibility
Fencers = final
Bowmen = final

This basically leaves the "swordsman body base", which gets reused across several other units. TBH, I too am a bit dissatisfied with this (including the helmet), and if we can come up with something better, I'd be quite happy. The biggest thing that comes to mind is that right now, they look kinda gimpy with their mostly bare legs sticking out from a large torso - one thing that might help this would be making a much larger "war skirt", possibly hanging down nearly to their knees.

Naturally we don't want to invalidate LordBob's kickass portraits, but I don't think any edit within reason could do so, since there's so much room for re-interpretation on the portrait (also, since the portraits show almost nothing below the waist, so changing the legs is immaterial).


The other element I'm a tad dissatisfied with is the lieutenant -> marshal's eye slot.


So feel free to make attempts at tweaking these - I may well do so myself. Let's bounce some ideas back and forth.
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Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby artisticdude » June 11th, 2011, 8:49 pm

List:
Mages = final
HI = don't have much for animations, so tweaking is still a possibility
Fencers = final
Bowmen = final
Hmm. What about the Royal Guard and Halbardier? I think ideally there should be slightly more differentiation between the two then there is currently (same goes for the swordsman/pikeman). Not a complete re-sprite, by any means, but currently -in both cases- it's the same unit holding different weapons. I think the portraits allow some leeway for this kind of change, at least as far as, say, pauldron and helmet design are concerned.

This basically leaves the "swordsman body base", which gets reused across several other units. TBH, I too am a bit dissatisfied with this (including the helmet), and if we can come up with something better, I'd be quite happy. The biggest thing that comes to mind is that right now, they look kinda gimpy with their mostly bare legs sticking out from a large torso - one thing that might help this would be making a much larger "war skirt", possibly hanging down nearly to their knees.

Naturally we don't want to invalidate LordBob's kickass portraits, but I don't think any edit within reason could do so, since there's so much room for re-interpretation on the portrait (also, since the portraits show almost nothing below the waist, so changing the legs is immaterial).
Indeed, the portraits have a lot of bearing on any changes that are made. I like the idea of 'war skirts', they provide reasonable upper leg protection without hurting mobility too much.

The other element I'm a tad dissatisfied with is the lieutenant -> marshal's eye slot.
This has been something that's been bothering me also. I've tried a variety of edits, but it always ends up that either the shape of the helmet is compromised or the 'eye' disappears. :hmm: Perhaps if the visor were lifted, it would be easier to portray the eyes (like the way you did the new horseman)?
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Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Sleepwalker » June 12th, 2011, 3:17 pm

Hmm something like this then? I completely redid the swordsman body base along with the lieutenant, because I remember reading before that you were also dissatisfied with the fly swatted stance... They have a kind of war skirt now and new heads. The swordsman having a more Gothic looking helm and the lieutenant having one with room for the eyes.

Of course these are just suggestions, feel free to edit them if you wish. But overall to me it seems like an improvement.
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Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Jetrel » June 13th, 2011, 12:37 am

I've taken sleepwalker's tweak a step further: Thoughts? (btw - thanks sleepwalker - your contribution here was VERY welcome.)
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Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Zerovirus » June 13th, 2011, 1:37 am

It seems a new term must be added besides Creeping Biggerism- Creeping Shinierism. That definitely fits with the new cavs and horsemen better, though by itself I'm slightly unsure of its objective superiority. Maybe it's a little too shiny?
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Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby doofus-01 » June 13th, 2011, 3:45 am

For what it's worth, I agree with Zerovirus. Such brilliance could make sense for some circumstances, but for a garden-variety swordsman, it might look out of place.

While I'm posting: Do you really want to keep the glowing eyes of the lieutenant line? (I will try to come up with an alternative, if not.)
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Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby artisticdude » June 13th, 2011, 4:07 am

O.o Wow Sleepwalker, you just never disappoint! :D

Personally, I prefer the extra brightness. It really gives the metal a whole new dimension of believability -for me anyway- and it ties the unit line in with the horsemen lines better. Although, on the other hand, the difference between the (rather dull in comparison) armor of the spearman and the brightness of the swordsman might hurt the continuity of that branch of foot-soldier line, at least to some extent. I'm not sure if continuity is a huge issue though, or how strictly and to what degree we want to keep that continuity. :hmm:
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Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Jetrel » June 13th, 2011, 4:38 am

artisticdude wrote: I'm not sure if continuity is a huge issue though, or how strictly and to what degree we want to keep that continuity. :hmm:


It looks better-made, which ... is entirely fitting for someone going from "poorly equipped recruit" -> "professional soldier in well-maintained armor".


Anyways I went off on a silly tangent with the lieutenant, which, I figured you'd nonetheless find funny to see: might be useful from frankenstein bits.
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Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Jetrel » June 13th, 2011, 6:14 am

:whistle: Don't ask.
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Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Sleepwalker » June 13th, 2011, 8:19 am

Hmm don't you think that skirt coupled with the muscle-y breastplate make them too similar to the mermen? It is kind of hardwired in my mind with the ancient era... I think I agree with zero and artdude btw. First reaction to your tweak was kind of: Where's my sunglasses? Now shininess in itself there is nothing wrong with, but it is still a little too bright I think, like he is standing in a very bright environment... After a while I got used to it though, dunno what to think... I once as an experiment tried to make a super shiny armor guy, a little more mirror like?... I'm posting it now cause it might give some ideas.

Rest is just positive: Even better helm and sword and nicely fixed shoulder and foot.

Here's a suggestion though: I toned down the brightness at some places and made a new skirt, with big hanging plates rather than strips.
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Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Jetrel » June 13th, 2011, 8:33 am

:hmm: I agree with your other tone-downs, but I really did like that war-skirt. Since I was fishing for differentiation on the lieutenant, using your plated one there might be the best of two worlds (especially since it kinda morphologically translates well into what the general has).

(and/or using it on the pikeman)


Also, an open challenge would be alternate helms for the pikeman/halberdier/royal-guard. I'm gonna take a (more serious) shot at the lieutenant.
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Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby thespaceinvader » June 13th, 2011, 8:49 am

I'll take a pop at the pikeman line at some point, but not too sure when. Busy bunny right now, still not caught back up from hols.
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Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Sleepwalker » June 13th, 2011, 9:07 am

Sure, it looks good and I like it too. :) Just figured more advanced type plate fits loyalists more.
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Re: Status of Loyalist Baseframes

Postby Jetrel » June 13th, 2011, 9:27 am

An essay at the lieutenant; I'd like to do that low-hanging sword, but it's feeling ever so slightly off at the moment. (any closer and it creates a tangent, but I think it needs to be closer. Maybe we need to tweak the angle?)

Possibly have both of these; upright for the SM, down for the L
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