Replacing the desert mountains

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Re: Replacing the desert mountains

Postby Boucman » September 4th, 2012, 6:08 am

non-expert talking here.... but I find them still a bit too contrasty for terrain...

terrain is usually low contrast to help readability (contrasty units, non-contrasty terrain) but this one is still a bit high...
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Re: Replacing the desert mountains

Postby Jetrel » September 12th, 2012, 6:15 am

I like where this is going - I agree about the perspective issue, but I believe that is fixable with some work. :D
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Re: Replacing the desert mountains

Postby doofus-01 » October 14th, 2012, 3:33 am

Thanks, Jetrel, Sleepwalker. I haven't given up on this, I just need need time and inspiration to align, then we'll be back in business. :)

Boucman wrote:non-expert talking here.... but I find them still a bit too contrasty for terrain...

terrain is usually low contrast to help readability (contrasty units, non-contrasty terrain) but this one is still a bit high...
This was my reason for posting. After seeing the black tropical forest and palm trees of BfW 1.11.0, I don't believe this to be true anymore (and those are terrains I could see being adjacent to the desert mountains). Actually, the not-so-new pine and hardwood forests graphics also break this, though it is not as egregious. I'll tone down the contrast of these desert mountain things, but the low-contrast rule seems to be disappearing.
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Re: Replacing the desert mountains

Postby Mefisto » October 17th, 2012, 2:36 pm

Are my palms still used in 1.11? If yes, don't worry, I'm refining them. I split exotic forest into two subsets: tropical (darker, better wisible on green background) and subtropical (lighter so they better blend with desert and dirt). I have already most of tropical subset ready:
rainforest (very dense, added mist and desaturated it slightly),
jungle (equivalent of average forest, similar density to deciduous and coniferous),
sparse (hills tropical forest).
I'm still refining palms so they can be used for atols and other tropical island to give them some variations.
The subtropical subset is still in work. The palms are ready (lighter and less saturated versions of tropical ones) but I'm stuck in designing baobabs and acacias. In few days I should post templates for subtropical foliage and some pictures of the refined version of new tropical forests so everybody can evaluate them.
I think you can lessen saturation and contrast of mountains and maybe add some reddish mist/dust somewhere. But even in this unfinished form they are great.
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Re: Replacing the desert mountains

Postby doofus-01 » January 19th, 2013, 11:59 am

Hi guys,

I've worked on this a little bit more. How are the perspective and shadow issues now? If they are still a problem, I should probably consider starting over.
If they are mostly OK, then I should probably work on variants (paying special attention to the prevent the perspective issue from creeping back in). And transitions too, that part doesn't look quite right yet.
desert-bkg6.png

(BTW, the new palms, available in 1.11.1, look great, so never mind what I said earlier about that.)
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Re: Replacing the desert mountains

Postby Sleepwalker » January 19th, 2013, 2:01 pm

The perspective is better now at the top at least. The bottom of the mountain is obscured by the smaller tiles though, could we get another shot with the bottom visible?

The shadows are not quite the same as the smaller tiles. It looks like it needs some more gray-blue.
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Re: Replacing the desert mountains

Postby doofus-01 » January 19th, 2013, 7:29 pm

Sleepwalker wrote:could we get another shot with the bottom visible?
OK
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Re: Replacing the desert mountains

Postby Sleepwalker » January 20th, 2013, 12:20 pm

There's a difference in height on the left and right side regarding the mass of rock making the peak. The right side seems to me like it should be much shorter than the left side as it disappears behind the small and shorter rock plateaus.

To illustrate my point i made 2 possible changes to the mountain: one where the right side is made appear taller and one where the left side looks shorter. Its a geometric change and I didn't finish the shading/ texture but I think they both eliminate the issue I see.
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Re: Replacing the desert mountains

Postby doofus-01 » January 21st, 2013, 4:51 am

Hrm... I've looked at your post several times (so my eyes are fresh), and I'm not sure I see it, to be honest.

If it looks OK aside from that, maybe variations will iron it out. If not, then maybe I'm out of my league with these "organic" or "natural" structures.
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Re: Replacing the desert mountains

Postby Sleepwalker » January 21st, 2013, 9:11 am

:doh: I think the fault lies with me. I looked closer at your original again drawing up geometric gridlines of the mountain and it seems like there weren't any fault... sorry if I wasted your time. There was some optical illusion it was giving me...

Thinking over it I believe it is one of the frontal pillars appear higher than it should be. Also the darker shade of the left side transition makes it more visible than on the right side where it is disappearing into the sand and thus the whole side looks a little shorter.

You should probably take my observations with a grain of salt.
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Re: Replacing the desert mountains

Postby doofus-01 » January 22nd, 2013, 3:23 am

Sleepwalker wrote::doh: I think the fault lies with me. I looked closer at your original again drawing up geometric gridlines of the mountain and it seems like there weren't any fault... sorry if I wasted your time. There was some optical illusion it was giving me...
No worries. I'll work on some variations, there will be other little glitches, so we can get to it later. Thanks.
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Re: Replacing the desert mountains

Postby zookeeper » January 22nd, 2013, 8:31 am

I've been following this thread but it only now occurred to me that the shape of the mountains might be problematic visually when units are standing on them; the current mountains have slopes so it doesn't look particularly odd no matter which hex the unit is standing on, but with these ones the units would seem to often end up standing on the vertical edges of the cliffs or with their feet in the air.

...however, I then went and tested it quickly and it doesn't seem to look as weird as I thought it might. Still, if you'll be working on more multihex variations, it might be a good idea to keep the unit placement in mind when planning their shapes, just in case.
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Re: Replacing the desert mountains

Postby Boucman » January 26th, 2013, 4:44 pm

this could be compensated in the same way units are not centerd on castle hexes... maybe
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Re: Replacing the desert mountains

Postby zookeeper » January 27th, 2013, 9:18 am

Boucman wrote:this could be compensated in the same way units are not centerd on castle hexes... maybe

Well, the terrain-based offset will then take effect on every hex, not just on the particular tiles where it might be needed, so I don't think that'd work here. Units already seem to get placed on a perfect height on some of the existing tiles, and those would get screwed up if an offset was added to fix their position on some other tiles.
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Re: Replacing the desert mountains

Postby fabi » January 27th, 2013, 10:16 am

zookeeper wrote:I've been following this thread but it only now occurred to me that the shape of the mountains might be problematic visually when units are standing on them...


I was under the impression that the latest work aims on impassable mountains.
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