Sleepwalker Animation Commissions WIP - Dwarves

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Neoskel
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Re: Sleepwalker Animation Commissions WIP - Horseman

Post by Neoskel »

I don't think the horse should bob in-tandem with the rider, it kinda makes them look like a single centaurish creature. I kinda think the horse shouldn't bob up and down at all, a slight swaying from side to side seems more appropriate. Having the rider bob up and down and the horse sway side to side simultaneously is what i would suggest.

Really nice work, good to see the horse units finally getting animated.
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Re: Sleepwalker Animation Commissions WIP - Horseman

Post by thespaceinvader »

I'm not quite sure the gallop motion is correct. Needs moar video reference =)

The fact that the horseman's legs don't move at all adds to the centaurish feel - as does the fact the that horse's chest goes up and down, rather than expanding where its lungs are. You've done a great job with the flag kinematics, though. Nice work =) there's very little to be concerned with here.
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Re: Sleepwalker Animation Commissions WIP - Horseman

Post by Sleepwalker »

I studied the motion of a horse and rider and exaggerated it on purpose- all for good readability in-game. Which there there was a slight problem with with the Saurians I think. There is a bounce in real life gallop but not as pronounced as this, and horses don't sway- at all. I suppose wolves and the like do, but not horses. Having the horse bob less would indeed be more realistic. But in this case that would remove a lot of the feeling of dynamic motion. Having the rider bounce along with the horse is simply a byproduct of the horse motion, I mean, of course the rider would move with the horses motion. If he didn't it would lead to a very sore butt for the rider and an aching back for the horse. Besides the rider along with the saddle does lift 2 pixels or so from the horse when it falls down.

Anyway that is something I'm pretty confident about, tough if many more people think this is an issue i guess I'll repent.

But yeah! I agree that the rider legs would benefit from moving -good point. And as for the hind legs moving almost simultaneously... They almost did that on the clips I watched. Not really simultaneous, but kinda close. Definitely more than the front legs anyway. My try at emulation that might be too tight though. Might differentiate them more.

As for seeing lungs expanding, well, it's such a subtle motion enough when standing still that it would be almost impossible to notice during a run. For a horse anyway. Granted I haven't been close to a horse IRL for a long time.

Thanks for the input! :)
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Re: Sleepwalker Animation Commissions WIP - Horseman

Post by thespaceinvader »

Mm, WRT the moving legs and lungs comments, I was referring to the standing anim rather than the movement. Apologies, should have made that clear.
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Re: Sleepwalker Animation Commissions WIP - Horseman

Post by Sleepwalker »

Oh, well in that case it makes much more sense. 8)
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Re: Sleepwalker Animation Commissions WIP - Horseman

Post by Jetrel »

:o Wow. Once again, absolutely stellar work!
There are a couple of minor nitpicks, but the core of what you've done is a tour de force.
Sleepwalker wrote:I studied the motion of a horse and rider and exaggerated it on purpose- all for good readability in-game. Which there there was a slight problem with with the Saurians I think. There is a bounce in real life gallop but not as pronounced as this, and horses don't sway- at all. I suppose wolves and the like do, but not horses. Having the horse bob less would indeed be more realistic. But in this case that would remove a lot of the feeling of dynamic motion.
I completely agree with the exaggeration.
Sleepwalker wrote:Having the rider bounce along with the horse is simply a byproduct of the horse motion, I mean, of course the rider would move with the horses motion. If he didn't it would lead to a very sore butt for the rider and an aching back for the horse. Besides the rider along with the saddle does lift 2 pixels or so from the horse when it falls down.
Thoughts:
- the rider could perhaps even lift more than just 2 pixels; consulting reference leads me to believe the 2-pixel thing isn't an exaggeration at all, and a touch more might not hurt.
- With the possible exception of the lung thing, the standing animation is solid.
- the legs seem to shorten just a touch too much in the run animation; maybe - I'm not sure. It's very borderline. It might be the apex of the right-front leg in the NE anim.
- the man's legs during the gallop animation could bend/tilt a bit. From looking at reference, there seems to be a substantial amount of "flopping outwards" on real riders, more than front<->back motion.
- I had an idea that the man's butt could slide back and forth on the saddle slightly during the gallop, but consulting reference seems to contradict that. The exception is it might be a touch most stable, compared the frame boundaries, than the horse under it.

All told, wonderful, wonderful work; thanks for sticking with this! :D
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Re: Sleepwalker Animation Commissions WIP - Horseman

Post by thespaceinvader »

It might be worth noting regarding the gallop that I believe riders at full gallop tend to stand up in their stirrups to absorb the vertical motion with their knees and quads.
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Re: Sleepwalker Animation Commissions WIP - Horseman

Post by AI »

thespaceinvader wrote:It might be worth noting regarding the gallop that I believe riders at full gallop tend to stand up in their stirrups to absorb the vertical motion with their knees and quads.
I was going to say that, but armored riders would usually be locked into their saddles, so they can use both hands for combat without being thrown off the horse.

This can probably be ignored in favor of kinematics though, especially since most people have never seen a mounted warrior, but have probably seen civilian riders.
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Re: Sleepwalker Animation Commissions WIP - Horseman

Post by Cloud »

As someone who's been around horses for quite a bit of my life, I must say you've captured the gallop pretty gorram well. I thought I'd swing in and add a few points of my own quickly (and they're mostly from my experiences of riding an old lazy horse who you could barely get into a canter if you were lucky, not a trained warhorse so certain aspects my not be as important).

1) Despite the horses being trained, I can still imagine the rider digging their heels in a touch to keep the horse going at that pace and for grip (even the the ride actually becomes smoother the faster you go).

2) If you are going down the exaggeration, have the rider bounce slightly out of time with the horse, it might improve the feel of smoothness. When riding you're always going to be slightly out of time with the horse, even with armour on one would be somewhat lighter than the beast and therefore would still be going upwards as the horse starts going downwards.

3) I could also note the gallop generally wouldn't be the method of travelling on a horse unless there was a real crisis, it's designed for short distances and leaves the horse winded afterwards. However it's one of the more distinctive gaits and therefore good for animation so I won't actually complain about it.

And finally 4) Which I've just noticed (still a minor point); The horse would probably keep it's tail from flopping downwards that hard (along with wind resistance to help too).

However you've done a fantastic job on the whole thing and I really can't stress that enough.
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Re: Sleepwalker Animation Commissions WIP - Horseman

Post by Jetrel »

Cloud wrote:3) I could also note the gallop generally wouldn't be the method of travelling on a horse unless there was a real crisis, it's designed for short distances and leaves the horse winded afterwards. However it's one of the more distinctive gaits and therefore good for animation so I won't actually complain about it.
Yeah, this is like our biped animations; they, likewise, would march rather than run, but running just looks better. Running is dynamic and exciting, and makes them look like they're in a tense, dangerous situation.

Also, perhaps most important, it lets us slide the sprites quite quickly without the animation looking too strange. If we animated walking/trotting, they would have to be slowed down dramatically or it'd look bizarre.
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Re: Sleepwalker Animation Commissions WIP - Horseman

Post by Sleepwalker »

Yeah, back at it again... sorry for the long wait. Horse animations IS harder to pull of properly, mostly due to all the extra inertia being transferred to the rider and then the fact that there are more limbs/parts moving around. Anyway I've worked a bit... thanks for the feedback and general info on horses. :) (and ego boosts :P )

So, new attack animation and a tweaked a gallop animation. Mostly gave the riders legs some movement and increased the bounce. There might be some advice i missed though.
Attachments
horseman-ne-attack.gif
horseman-ne-attack.gif (13.14 KiB) Viewed 5789 times
horseman-se-run2.gif
horseman-se-run2.gif (10.37 KiB) Viewed 5789 times
HorsemanNeAtkSeRun.rar
(97.92 KiB) Downloaded 372 times
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Re: Sleepwalker Animation Commissions WIP - Horseman

Post by thespaceinvader »

The gallop is closing on perfection aside from one thing - it looks like his chest plate stretches, rather than moving. A little of this is fine to enhance the motion, but I think this goes a little too far - maybe move the bottom of it up by a pixel or two as well as a bit of stretch. Maybe his visor could jog up and down a little bit, too.

But the kinematics of that gallop are gorgeous, overall. So jealous.
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Re: Sleepwalker Animation Commissions WIP - Horseman

Post by Sleepwalker »

I think I fixed the plate stretch and i made the visor move a bit as suggested, though it's most probably pointless as you won't be able to tell any difference in-game when the sprite is moving. It does look prettier on the forums though. :P

Also made the legs move during the bob animation. IMO these are all done now.
So jealous.
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horseman-se-bob.gif
horseman-se-bob.gif (6.88 KiB) Viewed 5839 times
horseman-ne-run2.gif
horseman-ne-run2.gif (8.9 KiB) Viewed 5839 times
horseman-se-run2.gif
horseman-se-run2.gif (10.37 KiB) Viewed 5839 times
HorsemanRun+SeBob.rar
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Re: Sleepwalker Animation Commissions WIP - Horseman

Post by Jetrel »

:cry: I'm at a loss for words.
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Re: Sleepwalker Animation Commissions WIP - Horseman

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