Loyalist Portrait Series

[zookeeper]

I have to say that I think the arrow should still be longer. It's now shorter than his arm would be, whereas with such a bow you'd definitely draw the string farther back than that. I can almost hear him thinking "ok guys, which one of you switched mine to these toy arrows?" or "oh crap, I think I grabbed the wrong quiver after all".

About a full third of the current length more would probably be good. Other than that it's pretty awesome.

[Simons Mith]

Yes: longbow arrows are about 80-85 cm. Left arm out straight, look left, measure from the base of your thumb to your chin.

[Pipeman]

Indeed. With about 1.91 m body height, I rank among the bigger people, I think. And I use arrows with a lengh of 84-86 cm for my english longbow.

Here you can see the relations between archer, his arms and the arrow:



The arrow should reach from the hand with arm outstretched, up to the shoulder. I think the fletching could be bigger, too. Here you have some nice medieval style longbow arrows:



I think the masterbowman will become great, once he is finished! Keep it up, LordBob!

[LordBob]

I will try longer arrows for the masterbowman, but it's not a given. Longer arrow means he will either have an unbalanced grip or won't be looking anymore at the tip of the arrow he's holding. So definitely not a full third longer. To be honest, only players with a good knowledge of archery will notice this size problem, so I'm all for dropping it.

While I fiddle with the master's arrows (and nose), here's the finished shading of the longbowman.

[thespaceinvader]

Love it =)

It's the detail that makes it, like the battered shoulder armour. Great work. I can't see any fixes necessary, so I'll get it committed as soon as kitty gives the go ahead.

[Lord.Bedham]

Wow Amazing!
Nice as allways! I have nothing to complain about! you are a great Improvement for the Game!

[beetlenaut]

only players with a good knowledge of archery will notice this size problem, so I'm all for dropping it.

I don't think that's true. I am no kind of archer, and I noticed. The bow is enormous, and the arrow looks tiny in comparison. However, before you posted, I was trying to figure out how one would do it without hurting the composition, and I can see the problem. You probably would have to redraw the hand and arm. Meanwhile, I love the pose on the longbowman!

With about 1.91 cm body height, I rank among the bigger people, I think.

No, that would make you very, very small!

[JW]

only players with a good knowledge of archery will notice this size problem, so I'm all for dropping it.

I don't think that's true. I am no kind of archer, and I noticed. The bow is enormous, and the arrow looks tiny in comparison. However, before you posted, I was trying to figure out how one would do it without hurting the composition, and I can see the problem. You probably would have to redraw the hand and arm. Meanwhile, I love the pose on the longbowman!

I don't think that an unbalanced grip on the arrow would look as bad as you think. Either way there might be some dissonance in the image, but as for which one would be less - if it even matters - that I don't know.

[thespaceinvader]

I agree - extending the arrow down until it reaches the scabbard or thereabouts wouldn't harm the composition a great deal i don't think.

It's up to you of course.

[Pipeman]

With about 1.91 cm body height, I rank among the bigger people, I think.

No, that would make you very, very small!

Whoops! You are right...

Fixed!

[kitty]

The Longbowman is great! Please commit!

Regarding the discussion on the masterbowman's arrow, I'm with lordbob - that's correctness nitpicking only very, very few players would ever notice. Do as you think is best for the picture, please.

[Mirion147]

Regarding the discussion on the masterbowman's arrow, I'm with lordbob - that's correctness nitpicking only very, very few players would ever notice. Do as you think is best for the picture, please.

But then, how many players would notice that a neck muscle is going the wrong way or in the wrong place? I think more people would notice a big bow needs a big arrow. Do what you think is best. I'm not trying to counter your authority and knowledge, however, I think your reasoning is faulty.

I'm sure it'll look as good as all the rest though . Great work so far! Keep it up!

[thespaceinvader]

Committed the Longbowman.

[Boucman]

Regarding the discussion on the masterbowman's arrow, I'm with lordbob - that's correctness nitpicking only very, very few players would ever notice. Do as you think is best for the picture, please.

But then, how many players would notice that a neck muscle is going the wrong way or in the wrong place? I think more people would notice a big bow needs a big arrow. Do what you think is best. I'm not trying to counter your authority and knowledge, however, I think your reasoning is faulty.

I'm sure it'll look as good as all the rest though . Great work so far! Keep it up!

i'd tend to disagree...

Mirion147 : everybody would notice if the muscle is wrong. It's just that it would "feel" wrong, and nobody (except trained artists) would be able to figure out why...

I have to admit that the "toy arrow" disturbed me quite a bit before anybody explained to me what was wrong, but if LordBob thinks it can't be fixed easily...

maybe try to put the arrow sideway, the MasterBowman seems to be looking at the camera more than the arrow anyway.

not sure if that would affect the composition, though

[LordBob]

But then, how many players would notice that a neck muscle is going the wrong way or in the wrong place? I think more people would notice a big bow needs a big arrow.

I think you'd be surprised by the actual answer to that question. EDIT: Boucman put it simpler (and faster)

In my understanding, anatomy matters in drawing are down to perspective and how the human body is built, and our brain has a very good innate knowledge of both. If shown a picture of someone with deformity, you will instinctly recognize it. Similarly, almost every viewer will instantly spot a wrong hand, an elongated arm or poorly disposed muscles, even if they cannot always put their finger on what exactly is wrong.

Technical matters on the other hand, such as the scale of an arrow, involve knowledge of the object itself. Lacking such knowledge, our mind manipulates very simple concepts and will accept almost anything provided that it's plausible enough. (Fantasy armour designs are often a very good illustration of this)
Back to archery, many people have never seen a bow in their lives and will manipulate the idea of "bow" with what they know of archery, a.k.a "pull the string and let go" ; scale matters only arise once you have reference. I myself would never have guessed the exact scale for the longbow & arrow if it weren't for the picture Pipeman posted.

Anyway, there will be a slightly longer arrow. Just keep in mind that I will focus on composition, not archery.


Once the master is done, I'll take the cavalryman. Lineart is underway, here comes a rough.