Where are Forum Games gone?

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Dugi
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Where are Forum Games gone?

Post by Dugi » December 31st, 2015, 6:07 pm

There used to be a forum named Forum Games. Now, I can't find it. Searching for posts I remember from there showed nothing and it's not listed in the list of forums. Where is it gone?

I think it was important and its absence is not a neglectful issue. I know it wasn't used much, but it had one important purpose. It allowed people to learn something of each other's personality in an unprofessional way. The discussion in most forums is mainly constructive and informative, formal and cold. Off Topic isn't a place to have some fun together, it's just to discuss some less related things. It was an important bridge between an aggregate of persons with some common business and a community. The forums are colder and less personal without them.

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doofus-01
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Re: Where are Forum Games gone?

Post by doofus-01 » December 31st, 2015, 8:47 pm

Off Topic still exists. :hmm:
But as for forum games, well, Wesnoth is serious business. There is no room for games. :eng:
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Chewan
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Re: Where are Forum Games gone?

Post by Chewan » January 1st, 2016, 2:29 pm

@ doofus-01 » There is no longer room for games!

You've been playing Wesnoth too long,
because something is badly wrong
when thousands of posts are quietly gone. :evil:

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iceiceice
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Re: Where are Forum Games gone?

Post by iceiceice » January 1st, 2016, 7:47 pm

Well it looks like this is yet another reasonable question from a user that will be totally ignored by the powers that be...

Anyways, according to the changelogs, Forum Games was deleted from the forums on May 19 2015.
Since no one complained in the 7 months since then it seems pretty reasonable to assume that it was dead.

But I agree with Chewan that its sad that the old posts are gone.

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Re: Where are Forum Games gone?

Post by Dugi » January 1st, 2016, 11:25 pm

iceiceice wrote:Since no one complained in the 7 months since then it seems pretty reasonable to assume that it was dead.
It wasn't dead. It had periods of time when it was more active and periods of time when it was less active. The Ruin a Wish had several posts per day in more prolific weeks. I generally looked at it and joined if I saw some activity. I was busy with other stuff and did not think of stirring up some activity there myself. For others, it could be related to the general inactivity on the forums that's making these forums remind a ghost town. Some campaign feedback forums don't get more visits either.
And didn't post about this instantly as I learned of it, I waited for some time to see if some information surfaces. It didn't.
iceiceice wrote:Anyways, according to the changelogs, Forum Games was deleted from the forums on May 19 2015.
Any idea who did it?

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iceiceice
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Re: Where are Forum Games gone?

Post by iceiceice » January 2nd, 2016, 6:55 am

Well, I think you can make a very, very good guess who did it. :roll:

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Re: Where are Forum Games gone?

Post by Dugi » January 2nd, 2016, 5:45 pm

He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named did it :shock: Who could have thought?

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shadowm
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Re: Where are Forum Games gone?

Post by shadowm » January 3rd, 2016, 12:36 am

foo1.png
Does anyone else actually feel that we need a dedicated Forum Games section?
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.

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Re: Where are Forum Games gone?

Post by Chewan » January 3rd, 2016, 12:37 pm

If this question boosted the activity on the forum would already be a good reason...
This won't happen at the moment, Dugi pointed to the cause why the absence of this section has barely been noticed.

No, I think we do not need a dedicated topic 'Forum Games' on the board of a game,
it may even give the false impression that the game BfW was not interesting enough.

However, the number of pages, replies and views on that fool.png above shows
that people were quite keen on posting their opinions on specific topics,
not only over time, but up to the time of the shutdown of this section.
Frankly, some posts were very funny and inspiring...

Anyway, the question about the need of Forum Games should perhaps have been asked earlier,
before closing the whole subject (and deleting all the messages beyond recall?)
Maybe at least the topics with a higher activity could have been moved to somewhere else.

But if I may ask, why has it been closed in the first place?
Is there a lack of available board memory?
Again, as Dugi mentioned: some feedback threads don't get any visits at all anymore,
no one might bother if those disappeared as well (including the outdated pages 2 – 200 of the LotI thread... :D )

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Re: Where are Forum Games gone?

Post by Benignity » January 3rd, 2016, 1:49 pm

I think that another alternative might be an official permission to use the Off-Topic subforum for games. Would that be alright with everyone?

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shadowm
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Re: Where are Forum Games gone?

Post by shadowm » January 3rd, 2016, 11:33 pm

The file is named foo1.png. That’s a digit, not a letter, and it wasn’t meant as a stand-in for one.

The thing is, Forum Games was hardly active, newbies kept starting non-forum-game threads there for some reason (forcing moderators to move them somewhere more appropriate), and it didn’t really justify taking up display space on the front page given its subject matter and levels of activity. You can see the last post dates in the screenshot above. At the time I had planned to move all threads back to Off-Topic but then forgot about it as more pressing matters came up.

Also, the forum still exists in the database, it’s just hidden for pretty much everyone (even moderators).
Chewan wrote:However, the number of pages, replies and views on that fool.png above shows that people were quite keen on posting their opinions on specific topics,not only over time, but up to the time of the shutdown of this section.
Opinions? If people want to exchange opinions and discuss stuff in general they should be using Off-Topic instead. I really can’t see how you can get to know people from hit-and-run-style posts that everyone forgets about in a couple of days.
Chewan wrote:Again, as Dugi mentioned: some feedback threads don't get any visits at all anymore,
no one might bother if those disappeared as well (including the outdated pages 2 – 200 of the LotI thread... :D )
Uncapitalized “feedback” as in threads in Scenario & Campaign Development, the Art forums, et cetera? We obviously want to keep those for historical interest, so pruning them is out of the question. As for the dedicated Gameplay Feedback section, personally I’ve been proposing to axe it since a few years ago, but some developers and UMC maintainers seem to find it useful, and they do get a fair bit of activity despite the inconvenient format.
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Dugi
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Re: Where are Forum Games gone?

Post by Dugi » January 21st, 2016, 7:52 pm

While chatting about some stuff in PMs, I realised that I needed to find something posted in Forum Games some time ago to link it and... heck, I had to write what I could remember, badly perverted by the couple of years it lingered there. So I decided to return here. This topic is just two and half weeks old, so this can't be considered thread necromancy. Just thread antibiotics.
At the time I had planned to move all threads back to Off-Topic but then forgot about it as more pressing matters came up.
So I am just reminding you what you have forgotten to do.
I really can’t see how you can get to know people from hit-and-run-style posts that everyone forgets about in a couple of days.
When Ruin a Wish was running, there were several posts per day. I even received a few PMs regarding the stuff posted there and chatted in private. If you see how people respond when they are just having fun and doing no serious business, you learn something about them or about their approach to others on these forums at least.
It's like exchanging a few PMs with people in a language that does differ between you in plural and you in singular. In English, cold and polite communication is hard to tell from a friendly communication when introductions are skipped and everyone jumps right to the topic. In many other languages, the difference between you and you tells a lot. These forums are in English, so this is lacking.

This also isn't about opinions, if I learn that some guy like heavy metal just like me, I learn little about his personality, nothing about his openness, friendliness, approach to the forums et cetera. All I learn from that is that preferences in music and such often correlate with some character traits.
We obviously want to keep those for historical interest, so pruning them is out of the question.
There is also a historical interest in the post of community members long gone. You can't PM them, you can't tell what kind of people they were. Non-formal but open communication is what you need to see. If you want to learn something about the author of your favourite add-on that is maintained by some completely different person now, that's your only shot.
As for the dedicated Gameplay Feedback section, personally I’ve been proposing to axe it since a few years ago, but some developers and UMC maintainers seem to find it useful, and they do get a fair bit of activity despite the inconvenient format.
And did you get consent of someone on the removal of Forum Games?

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Re: Where are Forum Games gone?

Post by Pentarctagon » January 24th, 2016, 8:15 am

shadowm wrote:it didn’t really justify taking up display space on the front page given its subject matter and levels of activity. You can see the last post dates in the screenshot above. At the time I had planned to move all threads back to Off-Topic but then forgot about it as more pressing matters came up.

Also, the forum still exists in the database, it’s just hidden for pretty much everyone (even moderators).
If display space is an issue (which is kind of odd seeing as it was at the very bottom of the form index) then it could just be made a sub-forum of Off-Topic.

Are you ever planning on moving the threads to Off-Topic? If not they might as well be deleted, though Dugi at least seems to have a "historical interest" in them as well. Also, if the original intent was to move the game threads to Off-Topic, does that mean game threads can be started in Off-Topic? If yes, it would make having a separate forum for them kind of redundant.
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Re: Where are Forum Games gone?

Post by Chewan » January 24th, 2016, 5:27 pm

@ Pentarctagon: Dugi at least seems to have a "historical interest" in them as well
So do I. In some of them, that is... I haven't browsed through all the topics with over 2,000 posts...
Half of them 'You've been playing Wesnoth too long' confessions of BfW-junkies – actually good publicity.
I did like the 'Ruin A Wish' short stories too... and that Us are moghty orks! page... :D

Altogether, rather innocuous chatter... I fail to see a reason to hide this forum for pretty much everyone.
Offensive jokes – if those even existed – could easily be deleted, and yes,
since 10% of the average number of 'users online' bothered to express their opinion here, ;)
those 10 or so subjects should just be made a sub-forum of Off-Topic.

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shadowm
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Re: Where are Forum Games gone?

Post by shadowm » January 24th, 2016, 8:48 pm

Since so many people (four I think? I can’t really count past two, sorry) seem to want Forum Games back so badly, I made more space by deleting the other forums.

I hope you are proud of what you’ve accomplished.

EDIT: To clarify, as it is I’m seeing a vocal minority that cares and a silent majority that doesn’t care. Given the choice, I’d rather have a vocal majority clamoring for the forum in question to be restored since that would make the community feel much more alive and in need of this kind of facility. That would’ve even saved us the hassle of discussing the issue about 8 months (or so) after the fact.

And no, the mysterious lack of poll-creation permissions for regular users never really stopped people from making their voice heard back in the day.
Dugi wrote:
At the time I had planned to move all threads back to Off-Topic but then forgot about it as more pressing matters came up.
So I am just reminding you what you have forgotten to do.
I vaguely remember seeing a completely different version of this passage, but okay.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.

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