Wesnoth 1.1.1 - Knalgans counter for ghost ?

Slw · Post by **Slw** » February 14th, 2006, 5:47 pm

Hi all, I am a one month old wesnoth player and I was wondering what knalgans unit I should use to counter ghost. (4 thunderer can kill a ghost but this is not cost effective)

I currently use footpads to defend vs them but one day or another i have to kill them before they become wraith. Dwarvish Ulfserker can kill a hurted ghost on daytime but it is risky to recruit them because they are basically free xp for ghost during night time.

scott · Post by **scott** » February 14th, 2006, 5:57 pm

Poachers can do a decent job too, but if there are more than a couple of ghosts the poachers are not going to last very long I would say.

Edit: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 0&start=15

Post by **Mythological** » February 16th, 2006, 1:07 am

Thunderers work best for me

toms · Post by **toms** » February 16th, 2006, 1:58 pm

Ulfserker for level 1.

Thunderers for higher levels. Poachers could also be nice.

Squig · Post by **Squig** » February 17th, 2006, 5:13 am

ulfselkers against ghost are not really a good solution anymore, since ghosts get drain now on their melee attack and ulfs still have a lousy defense %

Post by **Dragonking** » February 17th, 2006, 7:35 am

Ulfserker was always good solution against undead, since it eats at day everything except skeletons fighters, not even talking about ulf vs dark adept...

Website · Post by **Sapient** » February 17th, 2006, 3:21 pm

Squig wrote:ulfselkers against ghost are not really a good solution anymore, since ghosts get drain now on their melee attack and ulfs still have a lousy defense %

Another reason why L1 ghosts should have never gotten drain.

Post by **Soliton** » February 17th, 2006, 3:32 pm

Sapient wrote:Another reason why L1 ghosts should have never gotten drain.

That is perhaps the sole reason why Ghosts got drain on melee...

PS: Enlighten my about the other reasons if you will.

Tux2B · Post by **Tux2B** » February 17th, 2006, 7:06 pm

Sapient wrote:
Squig wrote:ulfselkers against ghost are not really a good solution anymore, since ghosts get drain now on their melee attack and ulfs still have a lousy defense %
Another reason why L1 ghosts should have never gotten drain.

A little overpowering, as ghosts could already be a pain, but well (maybe they are more expensive now, I don't know it, didn't test it yet)

Website · Post by **Sapient** » February 17th, 2006, 9:38 pm

Soliton-

I was referring to my earlier comments in the thread Undead are now too strong in the 1.1.x unstable version.

Post by **Noy** » February 17th, 2006, 10:31 pm

Would you like to back that up with some sort of proof or evidence or something?

To Kill a ghost, 2 thunderer hits and its dead 9-1 X2 . Ulf in the day still works well too.

Post by **Soliton** » February 18th, 2006, 1:38 am

Sapient wrote:Soliton-

I was referring to my earlier comments in the thread Undead are now too strong in the 1.1.x unstable version.

Umm, could you sum them up for me again, please? I can't find anything reasonable from you in that thread other then hypothetical scenarios and rediculous "arguments ala: "Anybody who can't keep a ghost alive isn't trying very hard.".

Honestly if you want to propose something constructive go ahead, otherwise better don't say anything.

JW · Post by JW » February 18th, 2006, 2:49 am

I still think ghosts are easily killed at *18* hp...

Drain was much much needed on the unit. Undead in 1.1.x are actually playable as opposed to 1.0.

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » February 18th, 2006, 3:05 am

At least high attack meleeists have more trouble taking them down. And they have become more cost-effective. I know resistances are good, but they ended in under 50%hp or less after a melee encounter most times.

Website · Post by **Sapient** » February 18th, 2006, 3:13 am

Eh, don't take it personally. What's so "ridiculous" about my suggestion? There are plenty of alternatives besides giving drain to ghost (which makes the wise methods of killing them rather one-dimensional... i.e. time to buy orc archers again!).

Consider:

1) Ghost HP is essentially double what it appears to be. 18 hp with 50% damage resistance = 36 effective hp. That's more than your typical level 1 scout. An elvish scout for example has 32. Also, this means that for every hp they drain, they are essentially gaining 2 hp. Drain was intended to bestow half that amount.

2) The ghost movement is vastly superior to the Ulfserker, allowing it to stay out of ulf range if desired. And its DEF is better. I'm just stating the obvious here.

3) Drakes seem to be a far greater danger to the life of a ghost. Giving them drain on melee does nothing to increase their ability to survive the drakes' ranged fire attacks.

Proposals (instead of drain):

1) Reduce the cost of the ghost to 19 gold and increase its HP to 19. [proposed by JW in previous thread]

--or--

2) Increase the melee damage of the ghost to 5-3 [proposed by Tomsik in previous thread]