Your Thoughts on the 9.3 Map Pack

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Doc Paterson
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Your Thoughts on the 9.3 Map Pack

Post by Doc Paterson » July 1st, 2005, 7:53 pm

I'm going to be going away for about 4-5 days (and won't likely have an internet connection), but I'd nevertheless like to try to start a discussion on the various 9.3 maps. If there is a particular map that you think may have a balance problem, or if there are any other map-related comments you wish to make, please leave them here, so that I can read them.

I'm concerned primarilly with things like player 1 advantage and factional balancing, so, if you think you've found any problems in these areas, post them up and (most importantly) try to provide clear reasons/examples.

I want these maps to be as good as possible when 1.0 arrives, and I can't do it alone, so feedback is a must.

Take care everyone- I'll talk to you when I return.

-Doc Paterson
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SaintDust
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Post by SaintDust » July 1st, 2005, 9:57 pm

Charge is a great map for 1v1.
And i like triple blitz very well.

The problem people have when making maps is size and number of gold.

Just a few minutes ago i played a map in which the first player could get access to a middle castle and server of the villages surronding it before we could even move our units.

He argued that the map was unbalanced. I disgreed.
When you have a map you got to take into account who goes first and what they can do on there early turns.

One of the most important parts of the game is being able to controll a decent income which allows for a steady flow of units.

If you look at the odins den(spelling) it is unbalanced.
If a player uses dwarves and recruits gryphons.. on turn 2 he can move up the narrow cave wall and get 4 more villages then you. If that happens you are then stuck with a 4 versus his 8.
Very unfair.

Other then that i have seen a fair balance

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Post by Rhuvaen » July 4th, 2005, 12:24 pm

SaintDust wrote:Just a few minutes ago i played a map in which the first player could get access to a middle castle and server of the villages surronding it before we could even move our units.

He argued that the map was unbalanced. I disgreed.
When you have a map you got to take into account who goes first and what they can do on there early turns.
So which map was that? And why did you think it was fair? It doesn't sound like that map took into account what you mentioned :? ...

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Post by Doc Paterson » July 4th, 2005, 6:32 pm

SaintDust wrote:If you look at the odins den(spelling) it is unbalanced.
If a player uses dwarves and recruits gryphons.. on turn 2 he can move up the narrow cave wall and get 4 more villages then you. If that happens you are then stuck with a 4 versus his 8.
Very unfair.

Other then that i have seen a fair balance
I should mention that there is one prerequisite for commenting on a 9.3 map- You have to have played at least one game on it. Griffins take a movement penalty of 3 on caves; the situation you described is impossible. Possible in 9.2, yes- but then again, this isn't 9.2. (The Griffin problem was fixed quite a long time ago.)

By the way- I'm back from my vacation. :D
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Post by Doc Paterson » July 4th, 2005, 6:33 pm

Rhuvaen wrote:
SaintDust wrote:Just a few minutes ago i played a map in which the first player could get access to a middle castle and server of the villages surronding it before we could even move our units.

He argued that the map was unbalanced. I disgreed.
When you have a map you got to take into account who goes first and what they can do on there early turns.
So which map was that? And why did you think it was fair? It doesn't sound like that map took into account what you mentioned :? ...
That's no map that I made, so I couldn't tell you. 8)
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olof
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Post by olof » July 5th, 2005, 9:00 am

Some of my maps made very good games.
I recommand you :
- Liliput 4c, 6c and 8
- Morituri 4, 6, 8, 9, and 4 carre (this last is the best)
- Smololof 6
- And the oldest one : Sym 3, Sym 4 and Sym 6
- Maybe one or 2 of the Lab family (2, 4, 6 or big...)


of course, you can use all the others if you want, but you can be sure of good games (all diferents) with this set of maps

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Post by Doc Paterson » July 5th, 2005, 4:46 pm

olof wrote:Some of my maps made very good games.
I recommand you :
- Liliput 4c, 6c and 8
- Morituri 4, 6, 8, 9, and 4 carre (this last is the best)
- Smololof 6
- And the oldest one : Sym 3, Sym 4 and Sym 6
- Maybe one or 2 of the Lab family (2, 4, 6 or big...)


of course, you can use all the others if you want, but you can be sure of good games (all diferents) with this set of maps
I already have a Morituri in the pack (for 3-p), and I'd rather not have multiple incarnations of the same map, with space being already limited (I'd like the individual maps to be as distinct as possible). I'll take a closer look at those, but I think you may have missed the point of this thread, which is to recommend changes/make comments on maps that are already in the pack. If we start along the "use my map" path here, this thread will become as clogged as my PM mailbox (which you are still welcome to use for this purpose). :D

It is likely that some of those will make it into 9.4 though, because we do have a slight need for more good 4-6 player maps.
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
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Post by SaintDust » July 5th, 2005, 6:39 pm

Odins Den doesn't use cave tiles down the narrow passages, so the gryphon can fly right up the narrow isle.

i just think people always put all the villages between one castle and the other, and none behind the castles. There should be something behind the castle for a player to obtain..

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Post by Doc Paterson » July 5th, 2005, 6:51 pm

SaintDust wrote:Odins Den doesn't use cave tiles down the narrow passages,
This argument is as simple as "yes it does." You're probably looking at an old version of Den of Onis ("oni" as in "demon") that you downloaded a while ago.
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
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olof
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Post by olof » July 5th, 2005, 8:00 pm

Doc Paterson wrote: I'll take a closer look at those, but I think you may have missed the point of this thread, which is to recommend changes/make comments on maps that are already in the pack. If we start along the "use my map" path here, this thread will become as clogged as my PM mailbox (which you are still welcome to use for this purpose). :D

It is likely that some of those will make it into 9.4 though, because we do have a slight need for more good 4-6 player maps.
sorry, i just didn't understand well the post, i thought you asked for our wish :oops: ( it seemed reading other posts, but i'm so bad in english :roll: )

so, my opinion : some good 1v1 maps, and 1v1v1 and too big and uninsteresting others, and no good 2v2 map (maybe the best is clash, but poor, and setting would be best 1221)

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Post by js138 » July 6th, 2005, 10:57 am

2v2 charge is and always has been a perfectly fine map. There have to be some maps without strategic water/swamp.

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