Auction X gold balance

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josteph
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Auction X gold balance

Post by josteph » October 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

In Auction X, the center side has 4 villages and each corner side has 5 villages. The starting gold value are 75/75/75/75/325, so the center side has 25GP more than the other combined. However, the center side has a lot more upkeep to pay, which will burn through the 25GP fast.

What's more, the center castle sometimes gets captured by a corner side during play.

So, I wonder, should we make the center hex give income of 10GP/turn to whoever the last side was to stand on it? That is, that hex would function as both a 10GP/turn village and a keep.

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sergey
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Re: Auction X gold balance

Post by sergey » October 16th, 2019, 6:29 am

josteph wrote:
October 16th, 2019, 5:35 am
So, I wonder, should we make the center hex give income of 10GP/turn to whoever the last side was to stand on it? That is, that hex would function as both a 10GP/turn village and a keep.
It is an interesting idea, I support it. I think in that case you show also lower the default starting gold for the center, which is currently 400. Usually people play FFA with AI in the center, because central side has a lot of units and AI moves them fast.

It makes sense to make the central village income to be configurable. Just in case here is the map description.
4 players surround a central keep, play vs. the AI survival style, or as a FFA or 4 vs. 1. The center player will need more gold in a 4 vs. 1 or FFA, and the best way to determine how much is an auction, LOWEST bid wins. It is a very small map so 75 gold is recommended for the other players.
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SatHyre
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Re: Auction X gold balance

Post by SatHyre » October 17th, 2019, 12:03 pm

hello,
it's a good idea to make AI's income +8 or +10 as default instead of +2.
the village income is configurable by the host.
and can you make AI's color white instead of black, please? it's hard to see black units when you play on android.

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sergey
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Re: Auction X gold balance

Post by sergey » October 17th, 2019, 1:48 pm

SatHyre wrote:
October 17th, 2019, 12:03 pm
hello,
it's a good idea to make AI's income +8 or +10 as default instead of +2.
the village income is configurable by the host.
and can you make AI's color white instead of black, please? it's hard to see black units when you play on android.
Base income and color are configurable for all sides. I assume they should be configurable on android too. We are talking about adding one village in the center with higher income as a reward for holding the center.
Author of SP scenario Dragon Fight and SP campaign Captured by a Nightmare.
Created The Rise of Wesnoth (alternative mechanics) version of the mainline campaign.

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SatHyre
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Re: Auction X gold balance

Post by SatHyre » October 17th, 2019, 2:26 pm

ah! i misunderstand it.
and if one side player kills AI and got the center, or above all 5 humans players play, does the higher income apply?

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josteph
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Re: Auction X gold balance

Post by josteph » October 18th, 2019, 12:02 am

The usual village mechanics would apply. Whoever was the last player to place a unit on the center hex would have an additional income of 10 gold/turn.

I don't think I'll implement this myself, so if someone wants to implement this as a PR or as an addon, go ahead.

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Krogen
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Re: Auction X gold balance

Post by Krogen » October 19th, 2019, 9:35 pm

I can see that the map originally was intended for 5 players. In practice though, about 95% of the time it's 4 human players and an AI. So maybe the starting gold should finally adapt to that fact. A smart human player on the mid would just overrun 2 or 3 sides at the same time and send nothing against the rest, then deal with what's left. I don't even know if it's possible to have a balanced game with 5 human players. With one AI though, it's a really good match, no wonder it got so popular.
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josteph
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Re: Auction X gold balance

Post by josteph » October 21st, 2019, 4:32 am

So maybe for 5-human players we should recommend playing the map with something like 100 gold for the center side, so he can overrun just one side?

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Pentarctagon
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Re: Auction X gold balance

Post by Pentarctagon » October 21st, 2019, 4:52 am

The problem being though that the match won't be fun for the side that ends up getting overrun. A 1/4 chance of essentially auto-losing with nothing you can possibly do about it isn't a very good design.
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josteph
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Re: Auction X gold balance

Post by josteph » October 21st, 2019, 5:05 am

What I was aiming for is for center to have to start by having an even fight against one of the corner players, while still having a bit of extra GP to protect their rear from advance scouts from the other corners. I hoped it would basically become a 4-player map.

Alternatively, the map description specifically recommends to have a human in the center, so maybe we should just change that.

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Krogen
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Re: Auction X gold balance

Post by Krogen » October 21st, 2019, 6:49 pm

If the mid player sends the troops to all directions, then it can be fun of course. But if it's played optimally, then yes, one or two sides will suffer and have almost no chance at all, while the others will have nothing to do early on. In my opinion, when talking about a map's balance, it should be assumed that all sides will aim for the optimal play. And if that's the case for the mid player, it simply has to be an AI.
Friends among eachother sometimes of course play with a human player in the mid, who divides the army fairly, just for the fun of it. I did that myself in the past. But that sounds more like a special way to play and not the meta.
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josteph
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Re: Auction X gold balance

Post by josteph » October 21st, 2019, 11:20 pm

I think I might not be explaining myself clearly. Yes, with the current gold settings (75/75/75/75/325), optimal play for center is to overrun two or three sides. That's why I'm suggesting to reduce center's gold, to 75 or a little bit more, so that strategy would no longer be possible.

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Re: Auction X gold balance

Post by Pentarctagon » October 21st, 2019, 11:48 pm

A more complicated option could be to have the center side's units be given a debuff in the beginning based on how far away they get from the center, with the debuff decreasing as the game progresses.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

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