Preferred Fate of the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate)?

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What would you like to ultimately see happen with the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate) faction?

Poll ended at April 11th, 2018, 9:20 pm

Add them to the Default Era
22
59%
Return them to the Add-On Server
15
41%
 
Total votes: 37

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SigurdFireDragon
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Preferred Fate of the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate)?

Post by SigurdFireDragon » March 14th, 2018, 9:20 pm

The Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate) faction as of BfW 1.13.11 is currently in the "Default + Dunefolk Era", which is separate from the "Default Era". Both eras come with BfW 1.13.11.

How the faction is in 1.12.6: https://units.wesnoth.org/1.12/mainline ... #Khalifate
How it is in 1.13.11: https://units.wesnoth.org/trunk/mainlin ... l#Dunefolk

The purpose of this poll is to get the current perspective of the forum community,
in order to better inform future actions taken with this faction.

A result one way or the other doesn't guarantee that particular action will be taken, as there are other factors to consider as well.

For those unaware, here are links to the recent work on the faction:
The faction and the units were recently renamed:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=47643
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=47704

Along with proposals for a new race description and backstory:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=47721

Though at the end of the day, the question is:
What would you like to ultimately see happen with the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate) faction?

This poll will run for four weeks and be stickied during that time.
Last edited by SigurdFireDragon on March 15th, 2018, 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: add sticky that I missed

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Re: Preferred Fate of the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate)?

Post by Pentarctagon » March 15th, 2018, 6:57 am

To clarify, this does not apply to 1.13/1.14 - at this point they will be staying as they are. So this would apply to 1.15 and the eventual 1.16. The current proposal for the Dunefolk race description is also here, for those who don't want to dig through that entire thread.

Additionally, there's a rebalancing thread in this forum here.
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Re: Preferred Fate of the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate)?

Post by vultraz » March 15th, 2018, 11:20 pm

Celmin and I were considering making them part of the Default era for 1.13.12, actually.
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Re: Preferred Fate of the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate)?

Post by Pentarctagon » March 16th, 2018, 12:44 am

Oh, neat. I had assumed it was too late to be making such a change, especially since the poll here said it'll be running for 4 weeks.
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Re: Preferred Fate of the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate)?

Post by pyndragon » March 16th, 2018, 2:53 pm

It's much too late in the cycle for this change. The faction cannot be balanced sufficiently in the month remaining to the projected release. As for this poll specifically, the options are misleading if meant as a referendum on immediate addition and inexhaustive regardless. Before merger with the default era, which isn't necessary anyways considering Default + Dunefolk already exists, the balance needs to be tested competitively for an extensive period. Additionally, my personal opinion is that mainline campaign integration should precede this change.
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Re: Preferred Fate of the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate)?

Post by MathBrush » March 16th, 2018, 4:08 pm

Has the faction not been tested competitively already at the same level it would be if we left it? I mean, if people aren’t playing it now, they won’t start playing it more. Adding it in makes more playing happen and more balance.

As for campaigns, the drake campaign has been stalled for a decade or so. I’m not sure waiting for a new campaign for Dunefolk to be finalized is such a good idea.

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Re: Preferred Fate of the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate)?

Post by skeptical_troll » March 16th, 2018, 4:46 pm

Perhaps if the merging is done it would be better to also have a 'default without dunefolk', for the competitive guys who don't trust the balance of the faction?

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Re: Preferred Fate of the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate)?

Post by Pentarctagon » March 16th, 2018, 4:48 pm

skeptical_troll wrote:
March 16th, 2018, 4:46 pm
Perhaps if the merging is done it would be better to also have a 'default without dunefolk', for the competitive guys who don't trust the balance of the faction?
Isn't that the current situation though, just with the era names flipped?
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Re: Preferred Fate of the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate)?

Post by skeptical_troll » March 16th, 2018, 5:02 pm

yes, but it redefines what is considered official and polished. The casual players and the beginners go for 'default' I believe, if a faction is presented as an addendum they'll think it's a deeper layer of complexity and in many case ignore it, or think that if it's kept apart it's for some reason. It only changes the way of presenting things, but I believe it matters. Apart from that, I think it's good to let the players have the freedom to stick to the old factions if they want (or even to have an option to exclude some factions they don't want to play with, if they choose randomly).

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Re: Preferred Fate of the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate)?

Post by Krogen » March 16th, 2018, 5:36 pm

What's the problem with the current solution? There is Default, then there is Default+Dunefolk or whatever it is called. I think the faction is a good add-on, but definitely not "Default material". Most players i know have the same view. Maybe there should be a Default era with Dunefolk and a Default Classic without them. Then it will be the official Default era, but players like me, who are not a fan of a 7th faction (and do not like it's balance at all) will have the opportunity to stick to their old ways.
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Re: Preferred Fate of the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate)?

Post by MathBrush » March 16th, 2018, 5:44 pm

Default and Default Classic actually sound pretty cool, and a nice compromise.

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Re: Preferred Fate of the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate)?

Post by Samonella » March 16th, 2018, 6:01 pm

I was on the fence until I read this:
skeptical_troll wrote:
March 16th, 2018, 4:46 pm
Perhaps if the merging is done it would be better to also have a 'default without dunefolk', for the competitive guys who don't trust the balance of the faction?
That sounds perfect to me; make it clear we want the dunefolk to be a proper faction, so more players will use them and we eventually can balance them well. Krogen's name suggestion for 'default' vs 'classic' would work too.
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Re: Preferred Fate of the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate)?

Post by pyndragon » March 16th, 2018, 8:10 pm

The problem is that the extensive rebalancing occurring now is evidence that the Dunefolk are not well-balanced and as such should not be included in Default for 1.14.
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Re: Preferred Fate of the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate)?

Post by name » March 16th, 2018, 10:07 pm

Why should this one unimaginative multiplayer faction that is not even popular in multiplayer be mainline to begin with?

It is essentially a (rather bland) historical faction that has been bluntly inserted into the fantasy setting of default era.

Of all the popular user made factions and eras on the addons server, why is this one chosen and given so much endless special treatment and unfair advantage over the rest of them? That is not the spirit of open source development. If we really need a seventh mainline faction (and if it can be balanced against so many other factions in a single era) it should be a faction that was widely popular before it gets mainline status, not one that is still unpopular years after it was arbitrarily mainlined as is the case with khalifate/dunefolk.

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Re: Preferred Fate of the Dunefolk (formerly Khalifate)?

Post by Pentarctagon » March 16th, 2018, 10:18 pm

Cold Steel wrote:
March 16th, 2018, 10:07 pm
Of all the popular user made factions and eras on the addons server, why is this one chosen and given so much endless special treatment and unfair advantage over the rest of them? That is not the spirit of open source development. If we really need a seventh mainline faction (and if it can be balanced against so many other factions in a single era) it should be a faction that was widely popular before it gets mainline status, not one that is still unpopular years after it was arbitrarily mainlined as is the case with khalifate/dunefolk.
Of all the popular user made factions and eras on the addons server, how many have been submitted for consideration to be added to mainline?
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

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