The Khalifate Resource and Balance Thread

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

The Khalifate Resource and Balance Thread

Postby Computer_Player » July 12th, 2017, 4:52 pm

Greetings! I am back for yet another Khalifate thread.

This opening series will contain four parts, an Introduction, a Brief Development History, an Index of Links, and Balance Discussion proper.

Introduction

I have posted a How To Play for Khalifate in the strategy section, however since it was primarily supposed to serve as a quick guide I have opted to move balance discussion here.

Furthermore, Khalifate isn't as established compared to the other factions (of a more dubious position compared to Drakes and played far less to boot). In order to promote Khalifate development, I have consolidated relevant threads as of this post to provide an easy resource. Having a more or less concrete vision of what the Khalifate are / are not is important in considering balance options- something that will be informed by the Lore (as embodied in the unit descriptions, campaigns, and even art and music).

To seek a sort of convergence, and in other to provide materials for "resourcement" in writing Lore and as a base for balancing (many threads about the nature of Khalif ask for more material), I saw the need to provide an Index of useful resources. Due to the nature of Khalifate, a Brief History of Development was also provided.

To be clear, the agenda is to polish Khalifate in such a way that we can do away with the Default + Khalifate era, originally a provisional thing, towards Default era integration - and to pave the way for a more clearer picture of Khalifate eventually towards a mainline campaign.

The main obstacle for all these being Khalifate balance- which will be the main purpose of this particular thread (hence why I chose this subforum, however this may be moved to Faction / Era development if mod wants) . Please refer/make to the relevant / more recent discussion threads in the appropriate subforums for non-balance discussion to keep things focused. If you want your thread included in the Index, please feel free to PM me.
Last edited by Computer_Player on July 12th, 2017, 5:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Computer_Player
 
Posts: 76
Joined: March 16th, 2008, 6:39 am

Re: The Khalifate Resource and Balance Thread

Postby Computer_Player » July 12th, 2017, 4:52 pm

Brief Khalifate Development History

The following is a broadstrokes history of development. I compile these mostly from reading forum threads, having only recently been active in Khalifate development. The purpose of this history is to facilitate the use of the resources in the Index of Links, since some of the posts / campaigns were made during particular stages of Khalifate development and thus are concerned with different versions thereof. Thus it was never meant to be an exhaustive history, but if you feel there are some items that I didn't manage/ was mistaken to put but is vital for said purpose, please feel free to correct me.

Development Timeline:

2014 - Present
[*]Default + Khalifate era is added back.


2011
November-December
[*]Khalifate is turned back to more familiar liminal alignment (1.9.10) , Default + Khalifate era is removed (1.9.11)


September
[*]Massive balance changes to Khalifate (1.9.9)


May
[*] Khalifate and Default + Khalifate era first appears (lawful alignment) in Changel logs in 1.9.6


2010
[*]Liminal was added (1.9.0) and experimented upon (removed in 1.9.7, back from 1.9.10)


<2010
[*]Khalifate makes the rounds as UMC, at some point being incorporated into ageless era and some campaigns, etc.
[*]Khalifate is started development by Noy (about 2005) and eventually joined by others, such as Wintermute, and happygrue.
Last edited by Computer_Player on July 12th, 2017, 5:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Computer_Player
 
Posts: 76
Joined: March 16th, 2008, 6:39 am

Re: The Khalifate Resource and Balance Thread

Postby Computer_Player » July 12th, 2017, 4:53 pm

Index of Links

The following is an index of lists scoured from the forum. They have keywords used for the search highlighted, if you want to remove them, merely remove the relevant ending in the link address.

Some threads / posts were made during different stages of Khalifate development, the list is generally arranged chronologically, but still be mindful and check the dates. However they may contain useful information, ideas and resources. I don't promote thread necro, especially when discussion could be had in a more recent thread.

Format is:

Title
Link
Remarks


Design / Writing / Lore
Let’s try to expand the great continent!:


Story of the Khalifate:
https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=41423&p=578987&hilit=Khalifate#p57898
I suggest this has main Khalifate Lore thread since it has best title already


Khalifate descriptions


Khalifate unit descriptions


Where Khalifate is (originally “How Khalifate reached in Wesnoth?”)


Translating the Khalifate


Let’s rewrite the descriptions!


Content gaps in Mainline (Writing)


Planning a Kalifate campaign


Music


Art
Khalifate graphics update?:


Khalifate facelift: Redux?


Strategy / Balance
How to play Khalifate (by Computer_player):
https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=45930&p=612184&hilit=Khalifate#p612184
You will find my ideas about Khalifate gameplay here and some replays)


How to play Khalifate (by Gyra_Solune):


Khalifate vs Mass Trolls or Drakes

Loyalists vs Khalifate is grossly imbalanced

How to play... Rebel vs Khalifate

My thoughts on the Khalifate

Khalifate Faction Balance Issues

Khalifate gameplay thread (feedback on balance and bugs)

The Falcon “Loop Hole”


Campaign / add-ons server
Return from the abyss

Oath of allegiance

(apparently has a map designed to accomodate Khalif)


Planning a Khalifate campaign

Caliphate army (MP era in add-on server)

Chalifa (MP era in add-on server)
[No thread]

The archives

The Rapine (Campaign in add-on server)
[No thread]

Desert traders

a New Order

The Desert Scorpion (Campaign in add-on)
[No thread]

Soldier of Wesnoth

au dela de l’horizon / Over the horizon (1.9)


General Development
Khalifate gameplay thread (feedback on balance and bugs)

Mental Khalifate / Rework / Map Pack – feedback thread
Formal critique against the Khalifate faction

add aragwaith to mainline (previously was “Replace Khalifate with Aragwaith”)
[url]https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=42382&hilit=araca
[/url]
Wesnoth 1.9.6


Resources
In the course of my research, I rediscovered this gems which could be a valuable resource:

Battle for Meridia
https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=30754
Khalifate was once part of this old project


To Lands Unknown (thematically related)

Posts by Noy (original creator) with Khalifate keyword


Controversial Threads
Khalifate and religion

Khalifate faction name

Khalifate era
Last edited by Computer_Player on July 12th, 2017, 6:23 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Computer_Player
 
Posts: 76
Joined: March 16th, 2008, 6:39 am

Re: The Khalifate Resource and Balance Thread

Postby Computer_Player » July 12th, 2017, 4:53 pm

Balance Discussion

I will flesh out this section some other time. However here are some areas to consider:

1. Drake vs Khalifate match up being greatly in favor of Khalifate
2. Khalifate vs Northerners match up being heavily in favor of Northerers mostly due to trolls.
3. Loyalist vs Khalifate match up being very heavily in favor of Loyalists mostly due to spearman
4. Water control for Khalifate
5. Unit pricing.
6. Falcon / Khaiyal buff / rework?
7. Someone familiar with modifying eras so we can test stuff out.

I have talked to some devs in IRC and it seems we just need to hammer down Khalifate balance for implementation.

Keep in mind Lore and what makes Khalifate unique in playstyle compared to other Default factions.

Please feel free to post thoughts / ideas / discussion / etc.
Computer_Player
 
Posts: 76
Joined: March 16th, 2008, 6:39 am

Re: The Khalifate Resource and Balance Thread

Postby holius » August 17th, 2017, 3:39 pm

Computer_Player wrote:1. Drake vs Khalifate match up being greatly in favor of Khalifate

Give liminals a weakness to Fire, or give lawfuls a weakness to Cold. I would prefer the second one, as it would be quite original to have a match-up where Drakes rely more heavily on Augurs than usual. Of course, it would have impact on Undead-Khalifate match-up, but that's manageable.
Computer_Player wrote:2. Khalifate vs Northerners match up being heavily in favor of Northerers mostly due to trolls.

Buff Khaiyal for this kind of targets. +10% impact resist. See also point 6.
Computer_Player wrote:3. Loyalist vs Khalifate match up being very heavily in favor of Loyalists mostly due to spearman

Computer_Player wrote:4. Water control for Khalifate

It would be interesting to add Naga Guardian to Khalifate.
Computer_Player wrote:5. Unit pricing.

Computer_Player wrote:6. Falcon / Khaiyal buff / rework?

Khaiyal : In addition to impact resist (point 2), reduce XP to 41 (from 48). Increase Rami XP to 45 (from 39). This is necessary to leverage the common Qanas level-up, a player who wants Qanas should be given a choice between costly/easy to level up vs cheap/hard to level up, rather than a false choice between costly/slow to level-up vs cheap/fast to level up.
Qanas : Change movetype. Give it all best resistances and move costs from Khaiyal and Rami, instead of suffering slight RIPL.
Hadaf : Make sure it has the same movetype as Qanas. Today if Qanas level up in mountains, it becomes unmovable...

Falcon : if the Falcon must participate to water control, buff its charge attack with marksman, and its other attack to 3-3. With Naga Guardian however, I think it's possible to keep Falcon as it is (weak).

Computer_Player wrote:7. Someone familiar with modifying eras so we can test stuff out.

I may try to code an addon.
holius
 
Posts: 3
Joined: May 17th, 2017, 8:49 am
Location: France

Re: The Khalifate Resource and Balance Thread

Postby Computer_Player » August 28th, 2017, 2:21 pm

Thanks holius, I will go over your post soon when I have the time; I will also flesh out the Balance post above.

In the mean time, I have discovered a hidden unit in Khalifate age of heroes. If you level up the Jundi, there is a third option: the Hashashine
it has orc assassin lvl 2 hp, mv set and reisists. However, it has 9-2 melee melee berzerk / 8 -2 impact marksman / 4-4 blade poison + marksman and lastly has nightstalk trait.

So yeah, I doubt this is a legit unit, probably just not scrubbed out (you can't recruit it directly in age of heroes) or inserted. It is very unbalanced at anyrate.

Save for it is attached
Attachments
Hashashine_unit.gz
(64.48 KiB) Downloaded 15 times
Computer_Player
 
Posts: 76
Joined: March 16th, 2008, 6:39 am

Re: The Khalifate Resource and Balance Thread

Postby radogar » September 27th, 2017, 6:08 pm

Hello there.

I'm reading the forum for a while now but never posted. But this changed tody. I want to help you balance the Khalifate faction. For thies I read the forum and startet number crushing on the unit page. Additional to what you already wrote, there is an inner balancing issu. If you exclude the falcon, the Kalifate faction have tow to strong units in the Jundi and Rami. Ther also have tow to weak units in the Arif and Khaiyal. The rest again excluding the falcon sieams to be ok. So I thing Jundi and Rami shoud be nerfed while Arif and Khaiyal shoud be buffed. And that in a way that it solves most you listed problems and at the same time keep most of the feeling of this faction.

That said. I think it is very odd, that the heavy cavallery Khaiyal don't have a charge attack. Isn't he the counter part to the real world Cataphract? Giving the Kalifate a Level 1 unit whit charge may help to clear this situations where you don't have enough village clear potential.

That will still not help whit the speerman problem. That was in my opinon the hardes one. The Arif seams to be beast fit to be the problem solver. But there is a problem written in one of the Links of the first post. The Arif had a stronger Attack befor but than was to strong against units how depend on hit change to survie. So as a resault the Arif damage was lowered. My sugestion is to increase the damage again and remove marksman from him. Thies way he can deal whit speerman and trolls and not be overpowered against the outlow type units.

Meanwhile the falcon is a hole other problem. The Problem whit the Falcon is that he is not that much faster compared to the other fast Kalifate units. His flying makes him the only water contender but compared whit other flyers or water units he is weak. Properbly because he is a level 0 unit. Undeads have whit the Bat a similar (but stronger) unit but they have other units to contend water. So my idera is: Make Eldar Falcon instead of Falcon recrutable. Mabe give him a new Level 2 Greath Falcon (any Idears for better names?).

Since my sugesstion ist to remove marksman from the Arif and add charge to the lance of the Khaiyal. The Kalifate woud with the falcon have tow units whit charge attack. But the chareg of the Falcon is weak evan on level 1. so I woud like to replace it and since i just removed marksman. Why not buff the Falcon whit marksman. This will keep the abilitys in the faction. An Falcon whit marksman sound not more silly to me than whit an charge attack.

Whit all this in mind. I have made some changes and put them into the attachment. Testing it youself is maybe more helpfull than all my talk. I will include a list whit all my changes including some more thougts below:

Changelog
Arif (compare to Drawish Fighter or Orcish Grunt)
  • lower XP tresshold to 43
  • Remove marksman.
  • Decreased damage to 8
  • Increase number of attacks to 3.

Jundi (compare to Elvish Fighter)
  • Incrase price to 16
  • Decrease melee damage to 4.

Khaiyal (compare to Horesman)
  • Lower XP treshold to 42.
  • Increase movement points to 7.
  • Add charge to lance.
  • Decreased lance damgae to 7.
  • Increased lance attacks to 2.

Rami (compare to Elvish Scout or Dragoon)
  • Incrase Price to 17.
  • Increase XP Treshold to 42.
  • Decresae range damage to 6.

Falcon (compare to Vampire Bat)
Eldar Falcon (compared to Blood Bat and the water units)
  • Lower the Elder Falcons price to 15.
  • Lowering his Movment Points to 8.
  • Lower Elder Falcon XP Treshold to 40.
  • Increase HP to 30.
  • Removed Barck attack.
  • Increase Damage to 5 and gave him Marksman.
  • Give Elder Falcon the Falcon png for better distinction.

New unit Great Falcon
  • Uses Elder Falcon png for better distinction.
  • price 32
  • hp 38
  • xp 90
  • mp 9
  • Attacks whit claws 6/4 marksman.

Naffat (compare to Thunderer) I woudn‘t chnage anything.

Hakim (compare to Elvish Shaman or Saurian Augur) I woudn‘t chnage anything.


Following the changes of the level1 units I try to accordingly change the greater level units:

Ghazi (like Arif)
  • Lower XP tresshold to 68.
  • Remove marksman on longsword.
  • Changed longsword to 12/3.

Shuja (like Arif)
  • Lower XP tresshold to 135.
  • Remove marksman on longsword.
  • Changed longsword to 12/4.

Khalid (like Arif)
  • Lower XP tresshold to 180.
  • Remove marksman on longsword.
  • Changed longsword to 12/4.

The next ones are strange cause the hadden have marksman for my changes. So to keep the balance I decreaseed ther damage more.

Mudafi (kind of like Ghazi)
  • Lower XP tresshold to 68.
  • Changed longsword to 9/3 first strike.

Rasikh (kind of like Shuja)
  • Lower XP tresshold to 135.
  • Changed longsword to 9/4 first strike.


Muharib (like Jundi)
  • Incrase price to 37.
  • Decrease melee damage to 6.

Batal (like Jundi)
  • Incrase price to 68.
  • Decrease melee damage to 8.

Like whit the Arif line, the next tow gyus are different. This time because they have no range attack. So I‘m a bit more carefull decrasing there only attack.

Monawish (like Jundi)
  • Incrase price to 37.
  • Decrease melee damage to 8.

Mighwar (like Jundi)
  • Incrase price to 70.
  • Decrease melee damage to 9.


Faris (like Khaiyal)
  • Increase XP treshold to 90.
  • Increase movement points to 7.
  • Add charge to lance.
  • Decreased lance damgae to 12.
  • Increased lance attacks to 2.

Mufariq (like Khaiyal)
  • Lower XP treshold to 140.
  • Increase movement points to 7.
  • Add charge to lance.
  • Decreased lance damgae to 15.
  • Increased lance attacks to 2.


Qanas (like Rami)
  • Incrase Price to 36.
  • Decresae range damage to 6.

Hadaf (like Rami)
  • Incrase Price to 60.
  • Decresae range damage to 8.

Saree (like Rami)
  • Incrase Price to 37.
  • Decresae range damage to 8.

Jawal (like Rami)
  • Incrase Price to 55.
  • Decresae range damage to 9.
Attachments
Battle for Wesnoth changes.zip
(55.03 KiB) Downloaded 10 times
radogar
 
Posts: 3
Joined: September 27th, 2017, 5:09 pm

Re: The Khalifate Resource and Balance Thread

Postby holius » September 28th, 2017, 2:25 pm

Hello radogar,

I disagree on the premise of your changes, that Jundi are to strong. Rami may be, that's why I propose to make leveling them far harder. But liminal Jundi + lawful Arif should be the main composition of ground troups for Khalifate. Remember that liminal is -25%/=/-25% damage done, when lawful is +25%/=/-25%, so most of the time, liminal units are weaker than neutrals with similar attacks displayed.

I don't think your method of unit-to-unit comparison is a good one. I don't want a Khalifate faction composed of Elvish archer (Jundi), Dwarvish Fighter (Arif), Horseman (Khaiyal), Footpad (Rami), same stats with different graphics and names. So I'd rather keep Arif with an original melee marksman, killing elusives, and tweak resistances so that the damned Spearman can be countered by the Khalifate faction (incremental changes : +10% pierce resist combined or not with -10% impact resist on one or several of Jundi / Naffat / Hakim / Arif).
holius
 
Posts: 3
Joined: May 17th, 2017, 8:49 am
Location: France

Re: The Khalifate Resource and Balance Thread

Postby radogar » September 28th, 2017, 3:46 pm

Hello holius,

that was the anser i feared whoud coming :( . But maybe your right...

I disagree on the premise of your changes, that Jundi are to strong. Rami may be, that's why I propose to make leveling them far harder. But liminal Jundi + lawful Arif should be the main composition of ground troups for Khalifate. Remember that liminal is -25%/=/-25% damage done, when lawful is +25%/=/-25%, so most of the time, liminal units are weaker than neutrals with similar attacks displayed.


Your rightI didn't knew that liminal equals damage reduction. I aktualy lookt for liminal in the wiki but coud only find information for lawful and chaotic. I still think the jundi is at leas at little to strong. Ironicly you meantioning them as main composition backs this up. Think about it why are they the main composition. Coud it be that they are at least a little stronger/more relaiable/cost effecti than the other units? If so, are they more dominat than units of the default factions? Isn't that also a balancing problem?

I think it is so and I aktualy woud like at least the options for more diverse recrutment, but of cause I can be wrong.

I don't think your method of unit-to-unit comparison is a good one. I don't want a Khalifate faction composed of Elvish archer (Jundi), Dwarvish Fighter (Arif), Horseman (Khaiyal), Footpad (Rami), same stats with different graphics and names.


I agree whit you so far that they shoudn't become this units only whit different graphics. I apolgy if it seams to anyone that this was my intetntion. I want to point out that it is very hard to compare something whit thin air. So I choosed the units in brackets to have something to compare them against and give a reason why i made thies changes.

For example the jundi, he cost originaly 15, mp 6 and had melee 5/3, range 6/3. Compared to most of the other archers (whitout the elvish one) he cost 1 more has 1 more mp and a lot more melee damage (overal, even if you calculate laminal in). I thing he was better than then yo I compared him whit the only better archer, the elvish one. I don't want him to have the same stat, and I apology again if this came across as my goal.

I don`t think unit-to-unit-comparison is such an evil thing. It gives you at least a starting point and an direction. The goal was to balance the khalifate against the default faction. Of cause it can never be the only critiria. Thats why I posted the attachment. Talking about changes is one thing but you have to play them to actualy balance them.

I'm curius. Have you tried the changes? Feel free to change the files. It is a work in progress.

Greatings
radogar
radogar
 
Posts: 3
Joined: September 27th, 2017, 5:09 pm

Re: The Khalifate Resource and Balance Thread

Postby holius » September 29th, 2017, 11:31 am

The Jundi is not dominant in playing Khalifate as Spearman is dominant when playing Loyalists. Jundi is part of the core package, but not dominant. Having Loyalist as a faction with one dominant unit, and other factions without such domination is not seen as a balance problem, but as a diversity strength of the game, as far as I understand previous balancing threads. So the internal balance in the Khalifate faction is not the primary balance concern. The balance concern is making any matchup of the Era a 50-50 balanced match (and an interesting one, not a single unit spam fest, or a recoloring of an existing matchup) on most maps.

Assuming the years of balancing Default Era (and maps) have left almost no problem for the full list of 2vs2 matchups (Rebels vs Loyalist, Rebels vs Knalgans, Undead vs Drakes, etc), the safest way to balance Default+Khalifate is by making Khalifate only changes. But that does not mean that the Khalifate package is bad, with its original things: recruit +8 healer, liminal/lawful alignments, general weakness to impact, desert favorable movetype, good melee damage for all units, melee marksman unit.

Internal balance becomes a problem only when a unit is never used at all, because it does not contribute in any matchup. That's why there is a problem with Khaiyal: it seems out of place in every matchup, be it
Khalifate vs Drakes (Jundi/Rami pierce more reliably)
Khalifate vs Knalgan alliance (to slow to be the Gryphon Killer, to costly to be of any use against other ones)
Khalifate vs Loyalists (pierce weakness against Spearman, ah! ah!)
Khalifate vs Northerners (could become good against Troll spam, but it's too easy to kill it before it levels up, so Naffat is still better)
Khalifate vs Rebels (dies to fast to Elven Archers)
Khalifate vs Undead (weakness to cold !)
Yet for Khaiyal, I would still search for a buff that would not make it similar to Horseman. The XP change is absolutely necessary. The move increase I'm not sure. I wonder if he would be a good candidate to the ability to move after attack (that is, an attack does not consume remaining move points).
holius
 
Posts: 3
Joined: May 17th, 2017, 8:49 am
Location: France

Re: The Khalifate Resource and Balance Thread

Postby radogar » September 30th, 2017, 8:32 am

Ok I reverted the Jundi and Arif changes yesterday, and changed the resistance instead. I aktualy added both of holius sugestions. The laminal fire weaknes and the lawfull cold weakness (I speared the Khaiyal because he already had -20%). I don't think it is enogh but sea for you self.

The Eldear Falcon feels out of place now that Arif also has marksman. Any suggestions?

I still think that the Jundi is to strong. He just brings so much to the table. The range power of an archer, the melee power of a weaker fighter, high mobility and he is cheap (at least for Khalifate). I think he is the reason the other units are so suboptimal. It is to cancelthe Jundi advantage out. Just image playing Khalifate completly whitout Jundi. That raises the qustion can other factions work whit one unit removed?

Arif still seams to be a bit weak.

To the Khaiyal, I reverted the mp change. He takes it surprisingly well. but it still feels like he is missing something. Actualy he is more of a mini Knight than a Hoseman. Well charge isn't that overused anyway. The move after attack thing woud thematicly better fit to the Rami. But has a high potential to break the balance on any unit and I have no idear how to implement it. Edit: Found a way to implement it. It is realy easy just add "movement_used=n" to the attack. Where n is propably the number the attack cost. It does seam it only works if you haven't moved befor an attack. Mybe this comes form some Ageless Era modification.

Edit: Added Changelog (this lists the differences from the original)

Changelog
Arif
  • Increased pierce resistance to 30%
  • Decrease impact resistance to -20%.
  • Decrease cold resistance to -10%.


Jundi
  • Decrease fire resistance to -10%.

Khaiyal
  • Lower XP treshold to 41.
  • Add charge to lance.
  • Decreased lance damgae to 7.
  • Increased lance attacks to 2.

Rami
  • Incrase Price to 17.
  • Increase XP Treshold to 45.
  • Decresae range damage to 6.
  • Decrease fire resistance to -10%.

Falcon
  • Removed from recruting roster.

Eldar Falcon
  • Added to recruting roster.
  • Lower the Elder Falcons price to 15.
  • Lowering his Movment Points to 8.
  • Lower Elder Falcon XP Treshold to 40.
  • Increase HP to 30.
  • Removed Barck attack.
  • Increase Damage to 5 and gave him Marksman.
  • Give Elder Falcon the Falcon png for better distinction.

New unit Great Falcon
  • Added to recruting roster in Age of Heroes.
  • Uses Elder Falcon png for better distinction.
  • price 32
  • hp 38
  • xp 90
  • mp 9
  • Attacks whit claws 6/4 marksman.

Naffat
  • Decrease fire resistance to -10%.

Hakim
  • Decrease fire resistance to -10%.

Qatif-al-nar (like Naffat)
  • Decrease fire resistance to -10%.

Tineen (like Naffat)
  • Decrease fire resistance to -10%.

Thaib (like Hakim)
  • Decrease fire resistance to -10%.

Ghazi (like Arif)
  • Increased pierce resistance to 30%
  • Decrease impact resistance to -20%.
  • Decrease cold resistance to -10%.

Shuja (like Arif)
  • Increased pierce resistance to 30%
  • Decrease impact resistance to -20%.
  • Decrease cold resistance to -10%.

Khalid (like Arif)
  • Increased pierce resistance to 30%
  • Decrease impact resistance to -20%.
  • Decrease cold resistance to -10%.

Mudafi (like Arif)
  • Increased pierce resistance to 30%
  • Decrease impact resistance to -20%.
  • Decrease cold resistance to -10%.

Rasikh (like Arif)
  • Increased pierce resistance to 30%
  • Decrease impact resistance to -20%.
  • Decrease cold resistance to -10%.

Muharib (like Jundi)
  • Decrease fire resistance to -10%.

Batal (like Jundi)
  • Decrease fire resistance to -10%.

Monawish (like Jundi)
  • Decrease fire resistance to -10%.

Mighwar (like Jundi)
  • Decrease fire resistance to -10%.

Faris (like Khaiyal)
  • Increase XP treshold to 90.
  • Add charge to lance.
  • Decreased lance damgae to 12.
  • Increased lance attacks to 2.

Mufariq (like Khaiyal)
  • Lower XP treshold to 140.
  • Add charge to lance.
  • Decreased lance damgae to 15.
  • Increased lance attacks to 2.

Qanas (like Rami)
  • Incrase Price to 36.
  • Increased pierce resistance to 30%
  • Decrease impact resistance to -20%.
  • Decrease cold resistance to -10%.

Hadaf (like Rami)
  • Increased pierce resistance to 30%
  • Decrease impact resistance to -20%.
  • Decrease cold resistance to -10%.
  • Incrase Price to 60.
  • +Changed Movement Type to khalifatehorse (like Quanas) was khalifatearmoredhorse (like Khaiyal).

Saree (like Rami)
  • Decrease fire resistance to -10%.
  • Incrase Price to 37.

Jawal (like Rami)
  • Decrease fire resistance to -10%.
  • Incrase Price to 55.
Attachments
KhalifateChanges.zip
Kalifate changes of 29 September 2017
(86.33 KiB) Downloaded 11 times
radogar
 
Posts: 3
Joined: September 27th, 2017, 5:09 pm

Re: The Khalifate Resource and Balance Thread

Postby Can-ned_Food » Today, 5:41 am

The Xalıdı Expansion is an era which takes place in the time succeeding the Battle For Wesnoth era.

So far, I only changed the names and some descriptions.
Now, I like the name of the era, and the way it is packaged, and would recommend that my work on the unit_type names — and other such things — be taken as a platform for future development. As for all the other changes you guys have done: we should work on merging them.

I guess it is time for me to begin a Git repo. Would anyone else want to begin with The Xalıdı Expansion as a foundation?
Can-ned_Food
 
Posts: 76
Joined: December 17th, 2015, 10:27 pm

Ideas for furthering the Khalifate project

Postby The_Gnat » Today, 7:51 am

Would anyone else want to begin with The Xalıdı Expansion as a foundation?


I would be interested in getting involved in this. If you create a Git-Hub project based upon your Xalıdı Era then we could easily work on the project together. Also I agree with Can-ned-food, if we actually want to get things done we should try to be focused.

As i see it this is the main goal (please comment if you have any differing opinions):

The goal is to make the Default Khalifate balanced against all other factions, and to ensure it is balanced to play on many of the mainline maps


To achieve this i do believe that setting up a git-hub project would be a good first step but i also believe we should title all our posts so that it is easy for everyone reading to see what aspect we are discussing/ attempting to balance.
Last edited by The_Gnat on November 21st, 2017, 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
The_Gnat
 
Posts: 1299
Joined: October 10th, 2016, 3:06 am

Unit Pricing! An essential part of balance

Postby The_Gnat » Today, 7:51 am

Computer_Player wrote:5. Unit pricing.


I am currently attempting to rework of all mainline level 2 units prices. I would definitely be interested in helping re-price the khalifate but think we should wait until we see what stat changes we want to make.

I still think that the Jundi is to strong. He just brings so much to the table. The range power of an archer, the melee power of a weaker fighter, high mobility and he is cheap (at least for Khalifate). I think he is the reason the other units are so suboptimal. It is to cancelthe Jundi advantage out. Just image playing Khalifate completly whitout Jundi. That raises the qustion can other factions work whit one unit removed?


@ Jundi-The Jundi is a powerful unit, however, as you proposed most teams have an essential unit which they rely on.

Spoiler:


Also if the Jundi is too powerful a price increase would be the easiest solution to the problem.

Arif still seams to be a bit weak.


@ Arif-Weak units are not a bad thing, as long as they have a special role. And as far as i see the Arif is not actually very weak he is just overpriced. If you consider the Orcish Grunt (which has: 2 less hp, slightly more powerful attack, no marksman) you see that the Arif is a good unit but it is just not practical to purchase because it is overpriced.

But with every change we must consider what ramifications are actions will have on other balances!


For example i am unsure about giving the khalifate -20% resistance to fire. What happens when they fight the loyalist and rebel mage (do they suddenly dominate)? What happens when they fight themselves (does it become a large naffat battle)?
User avatar
The_Gnat
 
Posts: 1299
Joined: October 10th, 2016, 3:06 am

Balancing the Xalıdı faction

Postby Can-ned_Food » Today, 7:38 pm

The_Gnat wrote:
The goal is to make the Default Khalifate balanced against all other factions, and to ensure it is balanced to play on many of the mainline maps

Yes, certainly.

However, I don't think we need take the other factions — Loyalists, Undead, Knalgan Alliance, Elvish Rebels, Drakonians, Northerners — as immutable: I think the Xalıdı faction should belong to its own era, distinct from the so–called Default one — a.k.a. The Battle For Wesnoth.
Yes, that would be a bit more work, but that would also allow people to keep aspects of the Xalıdı which they favor. Furthermore, it would help us from dealing with distorted symmetry in the event that all seven factions were featured in a multiplayer scenario — i.e. the Xalıdı being the odd part out.

P.S. My GitHub repo is up and should be working. However, I'm rather a novice with Git and especially with GitHub, so be sure to alert me to any problems you folks encounter.
https://github.com/Can-nedFood/era_TheXalidiExpansion
Can-ned_Food
 
Posts: 76
Joined: December 17th, 2015, 10:27 pm

Next

Return to Multiplayer Development

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ravana and 2 guests