The project to save the Age of Heroes

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Should the Age of Heroes have lots of level 1 units?

Yes, all the level 1 units
12
50%
No, none of the level 1 units
4
17%
Only a few level 1 units for balances
8
33%
 
Total votes : 24

Re: The project to save the Age of Heroes

Postby The_Gnat » July 7th, 2017, 9:36 pm

First of all i will say it is great to keep this project alive and i really appreciate your feedback! I have a few questions and then i will make the changes to the add-on! :D

I doubt that it's possible to keep the White Mage and balance it against Drakes. White Mages are very strong against Drakes (weak to arcane) and Saurians (weak to magical). His major weakness is low HP but backed up by Pikeman, who are also strong against Drakes, he will be untouchable. Drakes already have to play carefully to counter a heavy Spearman recruit. Pikeman + White Mage has no counter imo.


I definitely agree! So do you think i should remove the White Mage and replace it with the (lvl 1) Mage or just remove it completely?

Generally I would be wary about units that introduce new specials, attack types and change the tactics that can be used. The bandit probably shouldn't be added to make up numbers as he is too effective against skeletons. IIRC this is why the Footpad was nerfed... If you include lvl 1 and lvl 2 scouts elsewhere I don't see why not to include the lvl 1 Gryphon Rider to make up the loss.


I had not thought of that but it is very true. I will remove it and replace it with the Gryphon Rider. (do you think i should put in the thug also)

Drake Thrasher could be an issue for the same reason, since they don't have a frontline unit with impact in Default.


Another good point. If i do remove this unit what do you think i should add in instead. (The Drake Clasher?)

Shadows and Goblin Pillagers also stand out as needing testing.


I agree, the Pillage probably is not as significant because the orcs already have the crossbowman (who has similar HP) and hits fire. But perhaps it would give them a too large advantage (against undead) to be able to recruit a powerful melee scout.

As for the Shadow it certainly has potential for deadliness. It could be removed and replaced with the Ghost.

Maybe leaders + lvl 1 heavy recruits as well.


I do not understand this, could you perhaps explain? :D

Thank you for your feedback. The main goal of this project is to create a (more) balanced AOH and i believe that these are all very good ideas. I do not want to remove too many lvl 2 units since that is the point of AOH, but i believe that these changes will not significantly compromise the AOH.
User avatar
The_Gnat
 
Posts: 1297
Joined: October 10th, 2016, 3:06 am

Re: The project to save the Age of Heroes

Postby Deusite » July 8th, 2017, 10:56 pm

I would say maybe keep only the Red Mage. If the lvl. 1 Mage is kept it does leave the option to have healers open. The question is how easy it is to upgrade lvl 1 units in this era, since they can get lvl. 2 kills. If it's too easy, it might not be possible to balance, but as a general principle I think it's possible to compromise between balance and having all units available by making the lvl. 1 unit recruitable if the lvl. 2 can't be balanced.

On the Clasher, I'd say the same as before. In default I'd say the Clasher is more of a frontline unit than the Fighter (more HP and attack power) unless you want/need the added mobility.

I wouldn't put in the Thug line at all because of how cost effect they are against undead.

Leadership might need thinking about as the 25% bonus makes lvl 1. units more cost effective, but I only see this being an issue if a lvl. 1/leader spam turns out to be a viable strategy.

With the Shadow it has the most potential against Loyalists, since they are lawful and have the worst mobility.
AKA Marz
Two profiles are better than one
Latin Translator
User avatar
Deusite
Translator
 
Posts: 110
Joined: May 31st, 2009, 1:38 am
Location: Oxford

Re: The project to save the Age of Heroes

Postby The_Gnat » July 9th, 2017, 12:29 am

Deusite wrote:I would say maybe keep only the Red Mage.


Done.


Deusite wrote:On the Clasher, I'd say the same as before. In default I'd say the Clasher is more of a frontline unit than the Fighter (more HP and attack power) unless you want/need the added mobility.


Okay i have added the Clasher instead of the Thrasher.

Deusite wrote:I wouldn't put in the Thug line at all because of how cost effect they are against undead.


Done.


Deusite wrote:If the lvl. 1 Mage is kept it does leave the option to have healers open. The question is how easy it is to upgrade lvl 1 units in this era, since they can get lvl. 2 kills. If it's too easy, it might not be possible to balance, but as a general principle I think it's possible to compromise between balance and having all units available by making the lvl. 1 unit recruitable if the lvl. 2 can't be balanced.


With a 70% XP bar in MP and usually about 32 XP for level 1 units (0.7*32=22). Killing a lvl 2 unit gives 9 HP so i would say that it is likely that level 1 units are able to upgrade. But... the Mage and Clasher have high XP (54,45) so it will take longer to advance them. Also the main problem the Thraser and White Mage would cause is units that can not be stopped by the opposing faction. A single White Mage, or 2 Drake Thrashers would not present the same problem as would be if they could be recruited.

Deusite wrote:Leadership might need thinking about as the 25% bonus makes lvl 1. units more cost effective, but I only see this being an issue if a lvl. 1/leader spam turns out to be a viable strategy.


Okay, that seems reasonable.

As for leadership units the Orcish Ruler/Leader is over powerful, and can not be added.

The Lieutenant has been added to the Loyalists already (instead of the swordsman because Default era does not have such a frontline blade unit), he acts as a weaker blade unit and a mixed fighter. For the Loyalists faction the only lvl 1 units are the Spearman and Cavalryman currently. The Cavalryman's main ability is its speed so it can not be used effectively with the Lieutenant. As for the Spearman with the Lieutenant it is a cheap version of the Pikeman. But its low HP (36) combined with the Lieutenants low HP (40) and the fact that pierce is not good against any frontline units means that Spaming this probably would be defeated by high HP lvl 2 enemies or powerful ranged units.

As for the Elves they already have the Hero and Fighter and so adding the captain would be slightly repetitive. But in the spirit of AOH do you think it should be added for variety's sake?

The Drake Flare has already been added, but now with the Fighter,Clasher and Glider recruitable it would present a lot of opportunity for use. Perhaps the Drake Fighter should be removed (since the Clasher has now been added as the cheap lvl 1 impact unit and the Warrior can still be recruited).

Deusite wrote:With the Shadow it has the most potential against Loyalists, since they are lawful and have the worst mobility.


Now that we have removed the White Mage (one of the few units capable of repelling the shadow effectively) i think we should remove the Shadow and put in the ghost instead.

(I have uploaded a new version of this add-on)
User avatar
The_Gnat
 
Posts: 1297
Joined: October 10th, 2016, 3:06 am

Re: The project to save the Age of Heroes

Postby Yomar » September 6th, 2017, 8:11 pm

Yes, I agree, The_Gnat.
Yomar
 
Posts: 239
Joined: October 27th, 2011, 5:14 am

Re: The project to save the Age of Heroes

Postby The_Gnat » September 7th, 2017, 3:06 am

Yomar wrote:Yes, I agree, The_Gnat.


Thank you! I am not that great a player so i often find it hard to improve the balance of the add-on. Since that is the sole purpose of the add-on it unfortunately has reached a standstill...

However, if you (or anyone else) has any feed back about the add-on, or if you would just like to discuss varies ideas you have that would be great! :D

Overall, at some point (hopefully not to far in the future), i would like for this add-on to become part of mainline (not replacing the current AOH eras but adding an additional era for players to use the Age of Heroes units with some semblance of balance). However, as it is i recognize this era is not of the quite ready for that yet. And most likely in order to convince the dev's to add something like this (which can viewed in so many different ways, and i am sure everyone has different opinions about), it will have to be well balanced. Because of this, any thoughts at all would be helpful because it would start this fairly inactive topic again moving towards an eventual goal of a balanced Age of Heroes. :)
User avatar
The_Gnat
 
Posts: 1297
Joined: October 10th, 2016, 3:06 am

Previous

Return to Multiplayer Development

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests