Reforms for Merman Hunter

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Gyra_Solune
Posts: 263
Joined: July 29th, 2015, 5:23 am

Reforms for Merman Hunter

Post by Gyra_Solune »

It is well-known that the Merman Hunter and its primary line are not all that good. I have some exceedingly simple ideas to give them just that slight little push!

For the level 1 basic unit, its primary problem is that it's specific arrangement falls a bit flat - for a ever so slightly stifling 15 gold, you get a 6-3 bow equivalent at peak, which just slightly lacks enough staying power, and very little else going for the unit. Here is what I think for one of two alternate setups:

1) Change its number of strikes to 2, but increase the power to 8-2 or 9-2. A very very slight change that makes it hit a little more like an Orcish Grunt, and additionally helped by getting its damage bolstered by ToD more than the base. It fits what is described in the unit desc anyway: how javelins differ from bows in that they carry more power, but can't hit as far. From at the very least a flavor perspective, what's represented by the strike power and the strike amount is a scale from raw strength to skill. Units defined by having heavy hits but lower skill tend to have one or two high-damage attacks - such as the Orcish Grunt, Wose, Troll, Heavy Infantry, and so forth. On the other hand, units defined as being more trained, if less powerful, tend to have low damage per hit, but a lot more of them (bolstered more by how they fare a little better against dodgier targets) - units like the Naga, Fencer, and both the Elvish footsoldiers fall into that.

2) Give it (and, subsequently, the Spearman line) marksman on its ranged attack. This makes the unit more defined for harrying at evasive targets and makes its attack power far less of a problem given it gets that new advantage. This might be slightly too much of a buff to just leave everything else as-is - I'd say maybe the cost should be raised to 16 if it gets marksman. This would more fit the unit's description as, well, a hunter - members of the merfolk society who make their living using those throwing spears to capture fast-moving fish, which would naturally make them adept at hunting similarly evasive targets on land.

3) An option that only just came to me, but one which I feel is worth positing regardless - adding a weak, 1-strike slowing net attack onto the Hunter, making it more of a support unit. I say this option last because it is most likely to affect overall balance and may not go over as well, but it would serve to make the Hunter able to take on lone targets just a little easier, and both further its identity as an underwater trapper of sorts, and tie it in better to the Netcaster line.

Of course, the Hunter isn't the only off area, I think, and what poses a greater problem is the Spearman and Javelineer, particularly how they compare to the Netcaster. The problem comes in how much they lose compared to the meagerness of their sole advantage - somewhat higher raw offensive power. But 6-4 is not that much more than 9-2: that's a 6 point difference in offensive capacity on what's meant to be a proper frontliner vs a support unit. ToD compounds this further, with the precise math of that 25% boost meaning there is no change in the difference in power, with the Netcaster going to 11-2 and the Spearman getting 7-4. Every other facet of the Spearman is basically worse: the Spearman has lower melee, doesn't get the exceptionally useful slowing capacity, a marginally less useful attack type (especially in context of the Rebels - elves are brimming with bows already while their only impact is either on a squishy healer or a sluggish and expensive specialist), and, most often overlooked, 1 less MP and an additional 5 XP needed to level up further.

I think the Netcaster is more or less fine as-is, but the Spearman could use some work. My perspectives on what ought to be done:

1) If the Hunter gets marksman, then I think the Spearman getting it too would suffice just as well. Ties in actually to that 'skill vs power' scale in terms of the promotions: the Netcaster is a little more hardy at other ranges and generally more survivable, but the Spearman could do a lot more to more evasive or entrenched units, making it the more offensive option.

2) If the Hunter gets that change in its particular numbers or gets that added net, then the Spearman would need a little bit more. Going from an 8 or 9-2 to 6-4 would be a little weird - I think a good option is 9-3 for the throwing spear, giving it about 4 more HP, a 7-2 melee attack, and adding in maybe a slight pierce and/or blade resist. This to me solidifies its role as the more soldier-y variant as opposed to the Netcaster's more wild and ruffian appearance, like merfolk outlaws almost. This kind of setup means the Spearman could hold its own just a bit better in combat and benefits more from daylight than the Netcaster. There are other options I think would work if that's seen as off though - ditching the resist and HP for bumping its MP back up to 7 would get it to be a more effective skirmishy hit and away type of unit.

The Javelineer is not as big of a concern, and compares a little more favorably when you put it next to the Entangler - if it got Marksman, I would actually argue its throwing spear should be put down to 9-4 instead. In case of variant 1 of just more power, it doesn't need quite as much to my perspective. Possibly 11-4 on the javelin, 57 HP, 10-2 on the melee, and keeping those 10% resists would actually be a really strong setup. If you instead gave it the 7 MP I'd actually say it'd be good as it is, excepting maybe keeping that 10-2 melee attack.

So for tl;dr or quick summation in changelog style:

Merman Hunter, Spearman, and Javelineer get Marksman on their ranged attacks
Merman Spearman's XP cost reduced to 80
Merman Javelineer's ranged attack reduced from 10-4 to 9-4

OR

Merman Hunter's ranged attack changed from 5-3 to 9-2 (OR - is given 5-1 ranged-impact slowing net)
Merman Spearman's XP cost reduced to 80
Merman Spearman's MP increased from 6 to 7
Merman Spearman's melee attack increased from 6-2 to 7-2
Merman Spearman's ranged attack changed from 6-4 to 9-3
Merman Javelineer's MP increased from 6 to 7
Merman Javelineer's melee attack increased from 8-2 to 10-2
Merman Javelineer's ranged attack increased from 10-4 to 11-4
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Cackfiend
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Re: Reforms for Merman Hunter

Post by Cackfiend »

This is the change that was decided to go to testing for the Ladder era:

Merman Hunter: +2 hps, 60% Defense in Deep Water
"There's no love in fear." - Maynard James Keenan

I'm the guy who's responsible for 40% Gliders in all hexes... I can now die a happy man. =D
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Gyra_Solune
Posts: 263
Joined: July 29th, 2015, 5:23 am

Re: Reforms for Merman Hunter

Post by Gyra_Solune »

That is...not really the kind of change I'd have thought of myself. Hmmm. I'm not entirely sure if that really amends the concerns? Deep water isn't exactly common on most maps, though I get what the intent was with that. Slight survivability buffs are welcome, to be sure, but hrm. I'm not certain if that would really make it much of a better unit.
Ben24626
Posts: 59
Joined: April 8th, 2015, 1:07 am

Re: Reforms for Merman Hunter

Post by Ben24626 »

I still think Merman Hunter needs buffing. It has too low hp to be good defensively and too low dmg to be good offensively. On top of that it costs 15 which isn't cheap. Worst unit in default era IMO.
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Eagle_11
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Joined: November 20th, 2013, 12:20 pm

Re: Reforms for Merman Hunter

Post by Eagle_11 »

Making it level slightly faster could help, considering he becomes aquatic slow user once lvl2.
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