Dwarvish Guardsmans in Survival Games (and default era)

[Yomar]

Some survival games are just too easy if you stick Dwarvish Guardsmans in your castle.
I remembering playing an online survival game, and even if at some point my units and those of another two players were exterminated, he managed to finish the game easily alone with his Dwarven Guardsman, some of which he leveled.

Please can his defense in castle hexes be lowered to 50% ?

It would not unbalance the main game (Default Era) because players usually put them on villages, but it would render various survival games out there more challenging when you choose The Knagla faction.

After all every other factions high Hp/resistant unit does not get 60% defense in castles, Dwavish Guardsman get it, plus he is resistant to every kind of attack.

Heavy Infantry > 50%
Drake Clasher > 40%
Troll Whelp > 40%
Wose > 20%

So any chance that the Dwarvish Guardsman defense will be lowered by 10% at least in castles ?

[Andrettin]

It would not unbalance the main game (Default Era) because players usually put them on villages,

It would change the gameplay of many campaign scenarios in which they are used to protect castle hexes, though.

[Yomar]

It would change the gameplay of many campaign scenarios in which they are used to protect castle hexes, though.[/quote]

Change gameplay ? (What you mean exactly ?)
Not at all, it would make them just a bit more challenging.
And they are not sooo many.
Or at least I don't stumbled in so many Campaign scenarios (actually not even one and I finished the one that I played, I'm sure that there are some (Like those based on Knagla), but I don't played too many campaigns) where I had to protect castles with Dwarven units.

[Wesnother]

I completely agree with Yomar, I would also lower a bit the troll whelp and wose hp, idk if this would unbalance the game tough, but in my opinion adjusting the guardsman defense would actually balance out the game even more.

[GL_Network]

I completely agree with Yomar, I would also lower a bit the troll whelp and wose hp, idk if this would unbalance the game tough, but in my opinion adjusting the guardsman defense would actually balance out the game even more.

It's counterintuitive to reduce the power level of each and every tank unit in multiplayer. Will you want to reduce the spearman, the saurian augur and the ghoul after?

All mainline factions have good units for soaking up damage for survival games. Stats-wise, the dwarvish guardsman is actually worse than the human spearman (it has a bit more hp and resistances, but deals less damage and costs 33% more). And multiplayer games are balanced faction to faction, not unit to unit, so it's a moot point.

Let's face it, the guardsman isn't that good against ghosts. Does this mean ghosts are overpowered? No; ghosts just happen to be very resistant to physical damage, and guardsmen happen to have a very low damage output for their cost.

[Yomar]

I completely agree with Yomar, I would also lower a bit the troll whelp and wose hp, idk if this would unbalance the game tough, but in my opinion adjusting the guardsman defense would actually balance out the game even more.

It's counterintuitive to reduce the power level of each and every tank unit in multiplayer. Will you want to reduce the spearman, the saurian augur and the ghoul after?

All mainline factions have good units for soaking up damage for survival games. Stats-wise, the dwarvish guardsman is actually worse than the human spearman (it has a bit more hp and resistances, but deals less damage and costs 33% more). And multiplayer games are balanced faction to faction, not unit to unit, so it's a moot point.

Let's face it, the guardsman isn't that good against ghosts. Does this mean ghosts are overpowered? No; ghosts just happen to be very resistant to physical damage, and guardsmen happen to have a very low damage output for their cost.

In fact guardsman is not in strict sense better, at least not for attacking, but he is overpowered for defense purposes, with steadfast its like that he has like almost "double" of his actual hp.
If you have an resilient+strong or healthy guardsman he has like 48 hp, this means that in most cases its not possible to kill him with 2 units, even if you are lucky and hit him every time (with a rate of 100 %), while with some luck you can kill every other unit in this way (given that you use the right attack type), and this is a factor of balance,so why the Dwarvish Guardsman should be an exception ?

And again if there is no chance to reduce his hp then reducing his defense just in castles would not affect so much multiplayer balance if not for better and even more in many survivals (cause usually you have to entrench in a castle), that are too easy with a group of D. Guardsmans.

[GL_Network]

In fact guardsman is not in strict sense better, at least not for attacking, but he is overpowered for defense purposes, with steadfast its like that he has like almost "double" of his actual hp.
If you have an resilient+strong or healthy guardsman he has like 48 hp, this means that in most cases its not possible to kill him with 2 units, even if you are lucky and hit him every time (with a rate of 100 %), while with some luck you can kill every other unit in this way (given that you use the right attack type), and this is a factor of balance,so why the Dwarvish Guardsman should be an exception ?

Then again, we should not make an unit-to-unit comparison, else you will find "overpowered" units in every faction.

And your point isn't valid if the two attacker units are horsemen (assuming they get the +25% bonus from daily hours), which get thrown around a lot by loyalists. Obviously, this tactic (horseman charge) wouldn't work for a spearman, so isn't that unit even better?

Then again, you have ghosts, which compared to other scouts are nigh unkillable. A ghost would certainly soak up less damage than the guardsman if attacked by a berserker, for instance.

If you have trouble in survival games, it may be because the scenario isn't properly balanced, rather than the faction. In AI vs AI combat with default factions, Knalgans aren't really better than Northerners. Adding enemy horsemen to the scenario would make guardsmen do slightly worse, and spearmen slightly better. It balances out in the end.

[Yomar]

[/quote]
Then again, we should not make an unit-to-unit comparison, else you will find "overpowered" units in every faction.

And your point isn't valid if the two attacker units are horsemen (assuming they get the +25% bonus from daily hours), which get thrown around a lot by loyalists. Obviously, this tactic (horseman charge) wouldn't work for a spearman, so isn't that unit even better?

Then again, you have ghosts, which compared to other scouts are nigh unkillable. A ghost would certainly soak up less damage than the guardsman if attacked by a berserker, for instance.

If you have trouble in survival games, it may be because the scenario isn't properly balanced, rather than the faction. In AI vs AI combat with default factions, Knalgans aren't really better than Northerners. Adding enemy horsemen to the scenario would make guardsmen do slightly worse, and spearmen slightly better. It balances out in the end.[/quote]

I'm not talking of units vs units, but general tactics, I already explained that in multiplayer games especially in small maps, if you create guardsmans walls, the game is in most games is a win for Knagla or a tie if it goes badly, I'm also not comparing scouts, ghosts can be taken out with no so difficulty if you use burners or mages.

In fact I said in most cases, but attacking with an horseman can be a suicide, considering that guardsman has pierce, and can kill the attacker in one go.
Attacking a Dwarvish Guardsman especially if in a castle with a horseman is in most cases is a very bad idea, for this I'm saying to diminish his defense at least there (better woud be taking away some hp, but maybe this is asking for too much), and again this would not affect too much multiplayer games (beside balancing them more) them and also benefitting those survival games based on fort defense.

[Wesnother]

I also noticed that all the units included in the list of the first post don't possess a ranged attack, why also not taking off the dwarvish guardsman's one ?
After all the Dwarven faction has another 3 ranged units of which 2 with pierce damage, so not much loss here.

The guardsman damage is also not so bad, he can do roughly the same damage thanks to his resistances, this is even more true if he is attacked, cause steadfast.
Put in a lot of hp, and you have a wall, lol.