World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

[Dugi]

Me and Heindal are planning to make an MMORPG add-on in Wesnoth.

Planned features:
An RPG gameplay with one hero, summons and mercenaries
Both singleplayer and multiplayer, multiplayer would be for 1-5 players
Possibility to export and import characters, and develop them across multiple campaigns, both multiplayer and singleplayer
7 hero classes (Barbarian, Fencer, Rogue, Archer, Wizard, Cleric, Necromancer(Lich)), multiclassing, skills, attributes
Diablo II styled item system, with randomly generated items, and more rarely appearing unique and set items
Several campaigns, playable both in singleplayer and multiplayer, each for a certain range of players' levels

Progress:
Moving characters between save files works
Inventory system works to a certain extent
Mana system works
Character advancing works
Skills of Barbarian and Fencer until level 7 work
Random item generation works

It is at its very beginning, we are still looking for ideas and people to join our project.

More details (collected from posts in this topic):

Spoiler:

Hero classes:
Barbarian - the most potent fighter, unmatchable in resilience and melee combat, possessing some spiritual shamanic abilities to slightly improve his combat abilities
Fencer - A dextrous fighter, who prefers to avoid blows instead of enduring them like barbarian, possesses some basic training in magic
Rogue - A dextrous and insightful fighter, who prefers methods of feint and trickery and hates honest combat, able to use shadowy spells to confuse his enemies
Hunter - A ranged class that is still quite proficient in melee combat, but prefers to use bows to attack enemies from distance, can use some druidic magic
Cleric - A mage who has some training with melee weapons, his magic is mostly related with healing and improving the abilities of himself and others, if properly enchanted for combat, he can match a weaker fighter, but it is still the main supportive class
Wizard - The mage whose only interest is magic, he uses spells to do everything, to protect himself, to fight enemies, or even to wash dishes
Necromancer - A dark mage whose main interest are his minions. He can maintain an undead army, and likes hide behind it to attack enemies with spells from safety
Character may have one or two classes from the list.

Characters would be stored locally, but protected by hash codes to prevent people from deliberately editing them.

Items would drop randomly - depending on the area settings and the sort of the enemy (regular enemy, tough enemy, lesser boss, big boss). Some items would be randomly generated (randomly assigned properties from a list), some would have premade properties and some would work synergically together (item sets). Also, enemies on low level areas would never drop especially powerful items.

There would be some kind of crafting, enemies would drop precious gems to craft items from them.

You can play either with one class, or with two classes. Dualclassers have skills of both classes available, but lower attributes (probably the lower of the base attributes of the two classes, we need to penalise them somehow and slower exp is not exactly what I want), so if you make a Wizard/Barbarian, you'll have low intelligence and low dexterity from barbarian, and low strength and endurance/constitution from Wizard, making your character weak as a toll for the versatility.

Each time you advance, you'll gain some max hp, maybe some max mana, one skill point (this one done through the regular advancement screen), and one attribute point (to keep the stats relatively low, starting stats are intended to range from 5 to 30). Skill points will increase base damages or add new attacks and increase their damages, or some of them will add abilities (that will improve if you spend more points there, or new ones will appear). I think that the maximum for a skill might be 5, but it might differ depending on the nature of the skill (skirmisher ability for example cannot be improved, so its maximum would be 1, if there was a skill adding it). The maximum level might be like 30 (then the experience required would be increasing exponentially, making it virtually impossible to reach level 35).

Attributes:
Strength - allows you to equip heavy armours and weapons, and increases your damage slightly (much less than skills), like 0.2 damage per point of strength
Dexterity - affects the chance you get hit (low dexterity (5) - defences like a Heavy Infantryman, medium dexterity (15) - defences like a Spearman, high dexterity (30) - defences like a Fencer, exact values would be calculated by some formulas I have no formulated yet), the chance you hit, and damage with bows (as with strength); it will also affect the chance to hit (increasing with square root, not very likely to get too much over +10% to chance to hit) and damage with ranged weapons (like strength with melee weapons)
Endurance/Constitution (not sure about the name) - Hitpoints
Intelligence - magical resistance (small bonuses, increasing asymptotically), mana, mana regeneration
Skills would add more than attributes, but they would be capped at some maximal level, and equally available to each class.

Mana would be used purely for spells (but all classes would have some spells, though units like Barbarians would get them at higher levels and only some weak, supporting ones - like some shamanism, but capable to improve their combat abilities if they wanted so). Of course it would regenerate over time, its regeneration would be affected by intelligence, items and spells. Buff spells would have unlimited duration, but would slow the mana regeneration (because I bloody hate rebuffing in all games).

When a player dies, he falls unconscious for some time (while a cleric can revive him), and after then, he recovers, but loses some experience.

Characers would be able to attack several times per turn (fighters more times than casters, based on the level spent in the fighter class), and move 1 hex after each attack (but probably not more than 4 attacks per turn). This will let fighters kill more enemies per turn, not only one, reduce the retaliation damage (that would become the main destructive weapon of fighters otherwise). This would also give it a reason to make a fighter-caster hybrid, the caster would gain more attacks (he might use for spells instead) from the levels spent as warrior.

Spells would be like regular attacks (if offensive), but usable also through right-clicking, if the enemy is too dangerous to be approached. Buffs casted on self and allies would have to be casted through right-clicking.

Changes done by skills would include various additional bonuses based on the value of an attribute (regeneration based on constitution for barbarians, melee damage increased also by dexterity in addition to strength for fencers, damage increased also by intelligence for rogues, steadfast-like ability based on endurance for barbarians, spell resistance based on dexterity for fencers), the points invested into the skill might be a factor too. Other skills might simply increase the damage (more significantly than attributes), add special attacks (new attack with properties based on the base attack, but with some additional weapon specials and damage/attack number affected by the points spent in that skill), add spells (supportive spells like some lesser buffs would have a lower maximal skill value than offensive spells), affect something passively (summons for necromancer, offensive spells for other spellcasters).

Units would be able to have summons and mercenaries. Mercenaries would be regular recruits, maybe slightly improved, unlimited by quantity, but requiring upkeep and so on. Summons would be summonable anywhere (with the cost of some mana), their abilities based on skills, and experience gained by summons transferred to the summoner. Summons would be for example skeletons, ghosts, skeleton archers, skeleton magi for necroamancers, golems for wizards, companions (animals) for hunters (spirits for barbarians, angels for clerics, shades for rogues, simple golems for fencers (? maybe)). Mercenaries' selection would depend on part of the game.

Inversely to what was mentioned bellow, there would be different kinds of weapons, maces, axes, swords (quicker, but lower damage than axes), rapiers (melee pierce damage), bows. (avoiding the endless spritework of animations for different weapons by simply making the weapon unidentifiably blurred during animations, you'll just see the flash of the moving weapon)

So, if this appears interesting to you, post your suggestions, they would be greatly appreciated.

[Heindal]

So far I've been thinking about several starter maps for the first multiplayer scenarios. I have no experience in making multiplayer myself, but I've read the source code of some multiplayers and played some as well.

The first idea was to create an invaded village with different buildings, where the heroes have to fulfill several quests to free the village by rallying the villager, leading attacks and organize defence, gather ressources and save people. It's a classical approach.

The second idea was a arabic myth approach, where the hero starts as an unexperienced mercenary for rich trader in the desert to the south of Weldwyn (outside the original Wesnoth map ). She or He will than find out that his client is not what she/he/it was expecting. Fair tale approach with some spooky elements.

Both ideas are based on the idea of an adventure that can be done on one map. Different buildings and places will be on the same map, but in seperated map areas, that are surrounded by darkness, where you can be teleported to fulfill different missions. This has been done before in other multiplayer scenarios. From what I've seen in LoI and what I've discussed with dugi, I'm quite sure we can pull this off. So if you like to join us, feel free to send dugi a pn or post your suggestions.

[alluton]

I like the first idea more.

[nuorc]

I've never played MMORPG before, but I'd give it a try!

I like the first idea more.

For two or three reasons, me too.

Would you host SP on a server?

[alex23]

I like that idea, and wanted to ask what kind of rpg-advancement is that going to be? COmpared to Era of high Sorcery, Legend of the invincibels and Bobs rgp era? I know that many things will be similar to LotI and I like that^^ (as the campaign is really cool). However, some feautures from the era of high sorcery would be cool as well (those spell system is a really good idea).

If you need a beta(alpha) tester (or someone helping with easy(!) programming tasks) write me

[Xudo]

I like your initiative, and I'll be glad to help. I know WML good, but I didn't learn lua yet.

I'm strongly against the option of "singleplayer" mode. It is still an MMO.

There is a good trend in MMO to organize content:
Main part is lobby, where players can:
* team up and start "adventure".
* trade
* craft items to prepare themselves to adventures
Adventure is a number of scenes. First scene - "gear check". It's main purpose to test players whether they are able to pass through other scenes.
Then there is a number of average scenes, which provide players with resources for crafting and experience. They also used to tell the story about the adventure.
Final scene is "boss-fight". It is most difficult scene, but it yields good items for heroes.
After completion of final scene, players return to lobby. Average time spent on any scene is 40-60 minutes.

There are two possible types of adventures:
* Random - they are automatically tweaked according to players possibilities and intended to give players option to get experience and resources.
* Static - storytelling adventures, which requires well developed characters to be able to win.

Random adventures can be styled in different ways. For example:
* Elven/Undead forest
* Trollish/Knalga cave
* Undead/Human fortifications
e.t.c.

I'm against Diablo II itemisation. A lot of better item systems were developed in the past 6 years.
There are two good examples:
* Static loot from bosses
* Items crafted from resources you can gather in adventures

Could you post more info about your view of character development?

[Heindal]

Hi and thanks for reading and your interest in this project,

@nuorc + alluton: I'm going for the first idea then and develop this, first making a map and than continuing with the quests. I will post my results.

@alex23: We will overtake the system of LotI as dugi has already developed many solutions, that can be used within this mmorpg. We will add spells and a manasystem as well (i developed a bunch of spells too, but we will see if we can use them in a mmorpg). The character system is simple and based on strength, dexterity, constitution and intelligence. The information will be saved within the traits of the units - not only the stats but also the inventory - this will allow to save your character and load it again. But this is dugis ressort, I don't know much about traits and prefer using variables - which on the other hand is a bad habbit when it comes to multiplayer games.

@xudojnik: I'm not quite sure if the item/drop system will be 100% like diablo II. After all we are still in the planing phase. If you like to join our team, we would appreciate your help, work and experience, just sent dugi a pn about that. I already created a crafting system in strange legacy, but I still have to change that to multiplayer.

Farewell and have a nice weekend

Heindal

[alluton]

I could be testing it aswell when there is need to.

[Dugi]

Would you host SP on a server?

Main part is lobby, where players can:

I'm strongly against the option of "singleplayer" mode. It is still an MMO.

Wait, we are not making a mod, that would make a lobby. This is still meant to be a MP campaign, but with the difference that you have characters that can join games and leave games with players. Because of this, you can play the multiplayer as local game with one player, so there is not reason not to make it work for single player. There is also no way to store characters on the server, they will be locally stored, but so that only people with very good WML knowledge can edit them.

I'm against Diablo II itemisation. A lot of better item systems were developed in the past 6 years.
There are two good examples:
* Static loot from bosses
* Items crafted from resources you can gather in adventures

Hm, where are the examples for better item systems than the Diablo II-like one developed?
Static loot - and there is no need to enter one adventure twice, you have already the items... absolutely no reason to enter any location once again. And we would also have to set specific drops for every unit.
Items crafted from resources - This was done in LotI, with the small difference that the resources (precious gems) drop at random, and I think we might take it.

I like that idea, and wanted to ask what kind of rpg-advancement is that going to be? COmpared to Era of high Sorcery, Legend of the invincibels and Bobs rgp era? I know that many things will be similar to LotI and I like that^^ (as the campaign is really cool). However, some feautures from the era of high sorcery would be cool as well (those spell system is a really good idea).

Being the creator of LotI myself, I can tell that it will be mostly like in LotI, but with the difference that some spells will be used by right-clicking, and there will also be some attributes.

Could you post more info about your view of character development?

You can play either with one class, or with two classes. Dualclassers have skills of both classes available, but lower attributes (probably the lower of the base attributes of the two classes), so if you make a Wizard/Barbarian, you'll have low intelligence and low dexterity from barbarian, and low strength and endurance/constitution from Wizard, making your character weak as a toll for the versatility.
Each time you advance, you'll gain some max hp, maybe some max mana, one skill point (this one done through the regular advancement screen), and one attribute point (to keep the stats relatively low). Skill points will increase base damages, or add new attacks and increase their damages, or some of them will add abilities (that will improve if you spend more points there, or new ones will appear). I think that the maximum for a skill might be 5, but it might differ depending on the nature of the skill (skirmisher ability for example cannot be improved, so its maximum would be 1, if there was a skill adding it). The maximum level might be like 30 (or uncapped, just the experience required would be increasing too fast after a certain level), but we have not discussed this yet.

I could be testing it aswell when there is need to.

We'll remember, but we are far from the testing phase yet.

[Xudo]

I think you need to add bold phrases to first post under "Basic concepts" title.

Wait, we are not making a mod, that would make a lobby. This is still meant to be a MP campaign, but with the difference that you have characters that can join games and leave games with players. Because of this, you can play the multiplayer as local game with one player, so there is not reason not to make it work for single player.

We don't need to implement a lobby because there is default one. I noticed lobby in this concept, just to create complete view of it.

There is also no way to store characters on the server, they will be locally stored, but so that only people with very good WML knowledge can edit them.

I want to disagree here. One need very good WML knowledge to understand how it exactly works. But it will be relatively easy to understand that affects specific values. After some experiments, this will be hacked by brute force.

Hm, where are the examples for better item systems than the Diablo II-like one developed?

Diablo II itemisation assumes "Magic find" parameter. This is rather bad idea to use it.

Static loot - and there is no need to enter one adventure twice, you have already the items... absolutely no reason to enter any location once again. And we would also have to set specific drops for every unit.

Those items still might drop in random. (for example) World of Warcraft, Allods Online assumes, that on each kill, boss drops 2-3 items out of 10-15.

This system might be extended to reward players with items based on their character level. This also assumes, that items does not get improvement when characters level up.
For example if you kill Big_Bad_Boss on level 1, you get Cool_Pants, which increase dexterity by 1.
But if you kill Big_Bad_Boss on level 10, Cool_Pants will increase dexterity by 10.

Items crafted from resources

You can play either with one class, or with two classes. Dualclassers have skills of both classes available, but lower attributes (probably the lower of the base attributes of the two classes), so if you make a Wizard/Barbarian, you'll have low intelligence and low dexterity from barbarian, and low strength and endurance/constitution from Wizard, making your character weak as a toll for the versatility.

I assume, that player chooses the class for character when he creates it. I generally like the idea of dualclassing.
Though, I do not accept the "character gets lower characteristics".

I propose following system:
Each class characterised by three types of parameters: strengths, weaknesses and neutral. Strengths increases by 2 per level, neutrals increases by 1 per level and weaknesses does not increase by level.
For example Barbarians strength is constitution, weakness is intelligense. All other parameters are neutral. Wizards strength is intelligence and weakness in dexterity.
If player wants to create dualclasser, he should select Main_Class and Secondary_Class. Character will get strengths of Main Class and weakneses of secondary class. Combination Wizard+Barbarian (strength of main class is weakness of secondary class) is forbidden while the combination Barbarian+Wisard is allowed.

In addition, some skills might require specific main class and some - not.

Each time you advance, you'll gain some max hp, maybe some max mana, one skill point (this one done through the regular advancement screen), and one attribute point (to keep the stats relatively low).

For what is mana used for? Will it regenerate over time?

Skill points will increase base damages, or add new attacks and increase their damages, or some of them will add abilities (that will improve if you spend more points there, or new ones will appear).

For what is attribute point are used? May be skill points provide you with abilities and w-specials, while attribute points increase your attributes, which latter increase your damage, hitpoints e.t.c?
Assuming this, we have to choose whether we will use main+secondary class system (described some lines before) or attribute points.
I want to know how parameters affect characters fighting capabilities exactly. (If you already decided it)

I think that the maximum for a skill might be 5, but it might differ depending on the nature of the skill (skirmisher ability for example cannot be improved, so its maximum would be 1, if there was a skill adding it).

I think there is no point in discussing limitations of skills without having (partially)complete list of skills.

The maximum level might be like 30 (or uncapped, just the experience required would be increasing too fast after a certain level), but we have not discussed this yet.

I like exponental increase of required amount of xp. Removing level limit allows players to constantly develop their characters.

[Dugi]

We don't need to implement a lobby because there is default one. I noticed lobby in this concept, just to create complete view of it.

So you meant that you want to make a MP campaign that would be just trading? The players might simply enter the town at the start of a campaign and trade there, I see no point in making something like that.

I want to disagree here. One need very good WML knowledge to understand how it exactly works. But it will be relatively easy to understand that affects specific values. After some experiments, this will be hacked by brute force.

Whaat? I don't think so. Many things can be 'hacked', but there are things that cannot. There is a way to send data to other people in game, but there is no way to make the server itself execute any code, that would be required if we needed to store characters online. Because there isn't a single thing we might catch in this, I think this is impossible. If we made a hash system to prevent players from cheating, it would easily identify manipulated characters.

Those items still might drop in random. (for example) World of Warcraft, Allods Online assumes, that on each kill, boss drops 2-3 items out of 10-15.

I did not mean completely random items from bosses. Bosses will drop unique or set items that otherwise drop rarely, and there would be maybe 200 of them. If all items were autogenerated completely, there would be no way to assure that the boss will not drop complete junk most of the time.

This system might be extended to reward players with items based on their character level. This also assumes, that items does not get improvement when characters level up.
For example if you kill Big_Bad_Boss on level 1, you get Cool_Pants, which increase dexterity by 1.
But if you kill Big_Bad_Boss on level 10, Cool_Pants will increase dexterity by 10.

So a level 30 guy would farm that poor boss for level 5 heroes, and get easily Cool Pants with dexterity + 30. This thing was in Oblinion afaik, but most people hated it.

Diablo II itemisation assumes "Magic find" parameter. This is rather bad idea to use it.

Magic Find was not intended to be taken. Drops would be affected by area settings (so, in each area, the maximum quality of items will be determined), and chances to get unique/set items or crafting materials and number of picks would be determined by the type of the monster (whether it is a bog boss, a regular boss, a lesser boss, a better enemy or just a normal enemy).

For what is attribute point are used? May be skill points provide you with abilities and w-specials, while attribute points increase your attributes, which latter increase your damage, hitpoints e.t.c?

The plan is:
Strength - allows you to carry heavy stuff, and increases your damage slightly (much less than skills)
Dexterity - affects the chance you get hit (low dexterity - defences like a Heavy Infantryman, medium dexterity - defences like a Spearman, high dexterity - defences like a Fencer, exact values would be calculated by some formulas I have no formulated yet), the chance you hit, and damage with bows. There might be some abilities allowing the hero to add dexterity to the damage of light weapons
Endurance/Contitution - Hitpoints, maybe regeneration
Intelligence - magical resistance (small bonuses), mana

Skills would add more than attributes, but they would be capped at some maximal level (probably 5, as I said before).

I assume, that player chooses the class for character when he creates it. I generally like the idea of dualclassing.
Though, I do not accept the "character gets lower characteristics".

The point of this was to penalise the dualclassers somehow. I don't want to slow their exp rate as in D&D, so I would prefer if it was done this way - but if you suggest something better, write about it.

For what is mana used for? Will it regenerate over time?

Mana would be used purely for spells (but all classes would have some spells, though units like Barbarians would get them at higher levels and only some weak, supporting ones - like some shamanism). Of course it would regenerate over time, its regeneration would be affected by intelligence, items and spells. Buff spells would have unlimited duration, but would slow the mana regeneration (because I bloody hate rebuffing in all games).

I think there is no point in discussing limitations of skills without having (partially)complete list of skills.

Well, I have some ideas, but it is far from being finished.

I like exponental increase of required amount of xp. Removing level limit allows players to constantly develop their characters.

Yeah, that is why I suggested this, but I haven't discussed it with Heindal.

[alex23]

Hmm I think the best for duial classes is a small penalty to stats and a slightly higher xp needed. (Maybe instead of xp a little less luck? I think that would be even the best solution)
Frthermore I believe that having more set items (compared to LotI) would make the game more interesting (you know people like collecting sets).
A nice idead would be time of year dependent items( for fun and low priority)..

To the attribute points:

I believe Items increasing those stats temporarly and maybe a luck stat that can be only increased by (potions for a short time) and rare items might be a good idea? (I think of something like the luckstat in those com2us games - inotia (fr mobile phones))

No level limitation is really great!

Maybe a ranking system as 1) the ladder of wesnoth
or 2) simply all unit kills/overall damage dealt and taken etc like in the usual wesnoth gameplay (however those information should be saved not for only one scenario)

[Dugi]

Hmm I think the best for duial classes is a small penalty to stats and a slightly higher xp needed. (Maybe instead of xp a little less luck? I think that would be even the best solution)

I don't want the xp thing, it will have a negative effect on the competition in advancing in level.

Frthermore I believe that having more set items (compared to LotI) would make the game more interesting (you know people like collecting sets).

Yes, I wanted to increase their number in LotI as well.

A nice idead would be time of year dependent items( for fun and low priority)..

That would require otherwise useless updates to make. There is no way to make WML read the date. It would be easier if better items dropped in a game where a player named Dugi is, so everyone would enjoy my company

I believe Items increasing those stats temporarly and maybe a luck stat that can be only increased by (potions for a short time) and rare items might be a good idea? (I think of something like the luckstat in those com2us games - inotia (fr mobile phones))

This will need further discussion, but an easy implementation of luck might be that it would give the player a chance to land all blows against the probability, dodge all blows in a fight, find a powerful item in a chest, etc. Luck might be a stat that is impossible to increase, lower for multiclassers, unaffected by class otherwise, and increasable by some items (potions will be implemented, including potions that improve something over a certain time, not just heal).

Maybe a ranking system as 1) the ladder of wesnoth

I am not quite sure what ladder of wesnoth is. Can you explain how does it work?

or 2) simply all unit kills/overall damage dealt and taken etc like in the usual wesnoth gameplay (however those information should be saved not for only one scenario)

That would be a problem - in usual battles with a classical RPG party, the wizards deal the most damage and kills, while tanks are just there to take damage. It would be hard to compare them, it's like if you tried to find a way to compare an engineer and a cook, and to tell who is better in his profession.

No level limitation is really great!

So be it.

[Xudo]

Here had happened some misunderstanding.
Lets focus on the:

The players might simply enter the town at the start of a campaign and trade there

Many things can be 'hacked', but there are things that cannot.

As long as the characters will be stored on clients, they can be hacked with any text editor.

If we made a hash system to prevent players from cheating, it would easily identify manipulated characters.

I think it is a good idea. Though it might be implemented later.

So a level 30 guy would farm that poor boss for level 5 heroes, and get easily Cool Pants with dexterity + 30.

So I suggest to tweak adventures to the characters in the team. And level 30 guy will never see anyone below level 28 and above level 32.
It means, that
* it will be interestingly to play any adventure we will make on any level of character
* everyone will able to create adventures and care only about plot and storyline. Strength ofmonsters should be determined in terms "big boss"/"weak boss"/"normal monsters"/"weak monsters"

Drops would be affected by area settings (so, in each area, the maximum quality of items will be determined), and chances to get unique/set items or crafting materials and number of picks would be determined by the type of the monster (whether it is a bog boss, a regular boss, a lesser boss, a better enemy or just a normal enemy).

What is the area then? Is it entire map of scenario, or there is more complicated dependency?

I propose following rules:
big boss - 1-2 superior items
weak boss - 1-2 common items or resource to craft superior item
normal monsters - resources to craft common items
weak monsters - nothing

The plan is:
Strength - allows you to carry heavy stuff, and increases your damage slightly (much less than skills)

Amount of items which player can carry worth discussing too. First of all - do we really need it?
How much useful items character need to carry?
For example: Barbarians might need to carry two types of armor and change it depending of the situation to survive: one against physical damage, other - against magical damage. Wizards might be freed from carrying additional gear by using self-only defensive spells, while have to carry it all in the backpack.

Dexterity - affects the chance you get hit

Try

Code: Select all

Dexterity / ( ( 85 * level ) + Dexterity + 400 ) * 100%

Create graph and do some experients with 85 and 400 in google docs.

I propose slight different system:
Strength - increases damage with melee weapons by 1 for fast ones and by 2 for slow ones
Dexterity - increases damage with ranged physical weapons by 1
Intelligence - increases damage with ranged magical weapons by 1 (or damage from spells/healing) and mana
Constitution - increases hitpoints by 8.
Endurance - increases mitigation by 1

Skills affects:
* damage in percentages (+10% per skill point up to +50% for 5/5 points spent)
* defences
* amount of items one can carry (not sure whether it should be variable at all)
* regeneration may be unlocked by skill, but depend from parameter (constitution?)

This allows us to increase attributes indefinitely with same effect of each point of attribute.
It is obvious that defences are not endless. Thats why it's better to increase them by skills.
Different classes will have different defences. HI-like barbarians will never get more than 40% while fencers surely will have 70%

The point of this was to penalise the dualclassers somehow. I don't want to slow their exp rate as in D&D, so I would prefer if it was done this way - but if you suggest something better, write about it.

Very strong skills (Regeneration of Barbarians) might require specific Main Class of character. While average skills require Main or Secondary class.

Mana would be used purely for spells (but all classes would have some spells, though units like Barbarians would get them at higher levels and only some weak, supporting ones - like some shamanism). Of course it would regenerate over time, its regeneration would be affected by intelligence, items and spells. Buff spells would have unlimited duration, but would slow the mana regeneration (because I bloody hate rebuffing in all games).

In result: Barbarians will be just "move and attack" class, while Wizards would require some additional control.
I think they should get some spell-like actions.

How much spells player can do in one turn?


I think we should not include all skills that are possible to create in Wesnoth.
Let's start from distinction of roles of the classes. Then you need to post here your ideas about possible skills and we distribute them to classes.
From my experience in Wesband and some MMO's, I distinguish following roles:
Tank - in Wesnoth tanks should block narrow passages and ZoC monsters.
Support - this is healing, buffing e.t.c
Damage-dealer - Being able to move after attack is an important ability for this role in Wesnoth. Depending of the enemy they divides to melee and ranged.
Scout - this role matters only if enemies attack you only after they saw you. If you have scout, you can prepare to battle.

I think that
* Barbarian (high mitigation+resistance), Fencer(high dodge), Necromancer (can summon Ghoul or transform to lich) can fullfill role of tanks.
* Fencer and Rogue (high movement), Necromancer (can summon Ghost) can fullfill role of scouts
* Rogue, Barbarian and cleric can fullfill role of melee damage-dealers
* Wizard, Archer and Necromancer can fullfill role of ranged damage-dealers
* Cleric (Holy light) and Archer (Herbalism) can fullfill role of support (I think "Hunter" or "Stalker" is better name for Archer. There is an option to remove Archer and add Shaman)

I believe Items increasing those stats temporarly and maybe a luck stat that can be only increased by (potions for a short time) and rare items might be a good idea? (I think of something like the luckstat in those com2us games - inotia (fr mobile phones))

What exactly the "luck" affects? Chance to get rare item? Chance to hit? Defence?

Maybe a ranking system as 1) the ladder of wesnoth

I think about PvP 2vs2 and 4vs4 maps for this MMO. PvP is important aspect and we should care about it.

I also don't know whether the ladder will accept UMC maps.

That would be a problem - in usual battles with a classical RPG party, the wizards deal the most damage and kills, while tanks are just there to take damage. It would be hard to compare them, it's like if you tried to find a way to compare an engineer and a cook, and to tell who is better in his profession.

You can compare damage dealers themselves. Tanks and healers usually does not compete against themselves. If party won the last boss, then they do everything right.

[Dugi]

As long as the characters will be stored on clients, they can be hacked with any text editor.

You misunderstood me, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that we will once figure out a way to store save files on the server, and I said we will never manage that, but you meant something else - that is what is the part with the hash code about. This part will have to be coded in lua and written in the most complicated way as possible, parts of the code scattered across all files. It won't be much bug-prone, all we need is to make sure that for the same properties, it will create the same thing.

I think it is a good idea. Though it might be implemented later.

Sure, it would be a big obstacle when testing.

So I suggest to tweak adventures to the characters in the team. And level 30 guy will never see anyone below level 28 and above level 32.

I don't like this. Let's assume somebody will make a character of a type that is called in D&D suxtil20, a character that is very weak on low levels, and he will need help from stronger characters (buffs, summons to protect him). Also, some characters might need to join games with stronger or weaker characters, either because they are too weak or too strong. Simply transferring items from stronger characters to weaker characters would be a problem (suppose you find a good item for low levels with a high level character, but you almost cannot give it to your weaker character that needs it badly).

What is the area then? Is it entire map of scenario, or there is more complicated dependency?

I propose following rules:
big boss - 1-2 superior items
weak boss - 1-2 common items or resource to craft superior item
normal monsters - resources to craft common items
weak monsters - nothing

Same item qualities for one area (I mean, weaker set items, weaker random items, not worse types of items).
I would prefer it the drops were like this:
big boss - 1-3 set/unique items, rare crafting materials with a greater chance to find
lesser boss - 0-1 set/unique item, 1-4 randomly generated items, decent chance to find also a crafting material
normal monster - 0-1 set/unique item (chance determined by area settings, but generally about 1%), 0-1 randomly generated item (chance determined by area settings, but generally about 10%), chance to find crafting materials about 3-5%, determined by area settings

Some drops might be hardcoded, for example at the beginning, some lesser bosses might have static drops, to make sure the player will have something to fight with later (for those with bad luck).

Amount of items which player can carry worth discussing too. First of all - do we really need it?

Sorry for being ambiguous, the number of items a player can carry is intended to be unlimited, but I mean that characters with low strength would not be able to equip heavy armours, and so on, a skinny wizard should not be ably to equip a Titan Armour.

Dexterity / ( ( 85 * level ) + Dexterity + 400 ) * 100%

The problem is that I don't want these numbers to be too high. Starting attributes would be like from 5 to 30, each levelup would add 1 attribute point, so that you would end up possibly with a stat elevated to 60, maybe 80 with gear, but not into values like that. We might alter the formula to consider 5 to be the defence of a Heavy Infantryman and 30 to be the defence of a Fencer. And I want also to keep the different defences of terrains, to give a reason to care about terrain you fight on.

I propose slight different system:
Strength - increases damage with melee weapons by 1 for fast ones and by 2 for slow ones
Dexterity - increases damage with ranged physical weapons by 1
Intelligence - increases damage with ranged magical weapons by 1 (or damage from spells/healing) and mana
Constitution - increases hitpoints by 8.
Endurance - increases mitigation by 1

The details of strength are to be discussed. We don't want a unit to get 80 damage, further increased by items. It would be more balanced if each point of strength added 0.2 damage, and each skill increasing damage would add 1 damage. Active combat skills would further increase it by percentages (but if there was a useful weapon special, it would decrease if the skill was low).
Dexterity's effect on bows in my imagination was described above.
Intelligence might increase the damage of spells, but it might be specific for each spell.
Constitution and Endurance is meant to be one stat, I have not decided which one to use. I would prefer if damage mitigation was only a property of some skills, items or spells.
A skill unlocking regeneration based on constitution is a good idea.

* Barbarian (high mitigation+resistance), Fencer(high dodge), Necromancer (can summon Ghoul or transform to lich) can fullfill role of tanks.
* Fencer and Rogue (high movement), Necromancer (can summon Ghost) can fullfill role of scouts
* Rogue, Barbarian and cleric can fullfill role of melee damage-dealers
* Wizard, Archer and Necromancer can fullfill role of ranged damage-dealers
* Cleric (Holy light) and Archer (Herbalism) can fullfill role of support (I think "Hunter" or "Stalker" is better name for Archer. There is an option to remove Archer and add Shaman)

Necromancer is meant to be a lich already (but without melee drain, but maybe some advancement might add it). He would therefore be a tank against certain units, but get badly smashed by others. I intend to let the players recruit some units, but that would be generally wasting exp and gold, necromancer would summon things, with advanced skills also stronger things, that might take the role of tanks. Necromancer's summons would give their exp to the necromancer.
Barbarians and Fencers would be useful as tanks, Fencer would be also good at scouting as you said, but scouting is not meant to be an important role.
Cleric would be both a melee and ranged damage dealer, I want him to have also some spells.
Archer would be generally better at melee than wizards or necromancers, equal to a cleric (not buffed cleric). He might also have some nature related skills, he might be named Hunter, but he will not be changed to a shaman - that would be too many spellcasters. Barbarians and archers are meant to have a few shaman-like spells, but only weak ones.
I agree with the things I didn't disagree with.

You can compare damage dealers themselves. Tanks and healers usually does not compete against themselves. If party won the last boss, then they do everything right.

Yeah, but if somebody makes a hybrid between tank and healer, a barbarian/cleric with heavy focus on armours and healing (best meatshield, worst attacker), it would not work.