World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

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alex23
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Re: World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

Post by alex23 » December 11th, 2012, 7:18 pm

btw which work do you exactly need? finishing the cleric and wizard class? male female and macho sprite? what else? Just asking for later

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Dugi
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Re: World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

Post by Dugi » December 11th, 2012, 7:24 pm

I think the sprites are needed more at the moment, but discussing the classes to resolve the disagreements is also quite useful.

Btw, do you have subversion installed, guys?

alex23
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Re: World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

Post by alex23 » December 11th, 2012, 7:42 pm

Using Ubuntu/Linux, dont like subversion (seems to open on the first glance)

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Dugi
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Re: World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

Post by Dugi » December 11th, 2012, 7:45 pm

I am using Ubuntu as well, and it works nicely there (I think it was designed for Linux anyway). I posted a link to a guide for Windows just because more people use Windows.

You need to do this (after installing it what you clearly succeeded with):

Code: Select all

svn co https://wesnoth-umc-dev.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/wesnoth-umc-dev/trunk/Wolrd_of_Wesnoth/ /home/dugi/.local/share/wesnoth/1.10/data/add-ons/World_of_Wesnoth
Where /home/dugi/.local/share/wesnoth/1.10/data/add-ons/World_of_Wesnoth should be replaced by the location of the folder where you want to place it.

alex23
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Re: World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

Post by alex23 » December 11th, 2012, 7:56 pm

the problem is that I dont trust that software, this kind of sharing folders is pretty easy to exploit. After needing once over 20 hours to get rid off a botnet account on my laptop I am more carefull with programms i dont know.

EDIT: just noticed it uses apache, the worst enemy of security (Apache is known for beeing easilly exploited)

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Dugi
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Re: World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

Post by Dugi » December 11th, 2012, 8:04 pm

Whole wesnoth was developed using mostly subversion. Many various open source project were developed using subversion, so somebody would have noticed it (especially if it is open source, so somebody surely read what exactly it does). If it was dangerous, these guys would not have used it. Try to google svn danger and you will not find anything related with dangers of using svn (only some games with the word danger inside and dangerous commands that can harm the software you were developing), try to compare it with results of facebook danger or skype danger.

EDIT: And potential viruses or malware cannot cause any harm to us through the files because there are no commands to make WML or lua code edit something (outside wesnoth folder, as it is supposed to alter save files!).
Alternatively, you can use git, it works as well, I think, but less comfortably.

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Crow_T
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Re: World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

Post by Crow_T » December 11th, 2012, 10:36 pm

OT, but Blender has been using svn for years now, and Blender is insanely active development-wise, and across multiple platforms.

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Xudo
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Re: World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

Post by Xudo » December 12th, 2012, 10:27 am

Character wielding different weapons. How it will look like?
One ranged weapon + one melee weapon (+shield)
Several (1-3) "slots" for weapons: anything (like two ranged ones) can be equipped

If you going to use math formula for skills after lvl 5, then it makes more sense to use formula all the time.

I propose to rename "shield" to "off-hand item". This allows to introduce various "magical books", off-hand weapons, "totems" and so on.
Off-hand items - shields give resistances, OHI-magical books/spheres - increase skills, OHI - weapons - increase damage or number of attacks.

alex23
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Re: World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

Post by alex23 » December 12th, 2012, 1:47 pm

f you going to use math formula for skills after lvl 5, then it makes more sense to use formula all the time.
No? up to lvl 5 its normal advancement, from lvl 5 is simply to not stop the advancement as many games simply end by lvl X and thats anoying
It is like with xp - after lvl 30 an extreme increase in xp needed for lvl up to not simply stop at lvl 30
I propose to rename "shield" to "off-hand item". This allows to introduce various "magical books", off-hand weapons, "totems" and so on.
Off-hand items - shields give resistances, OHI-magical books/spheres - increase skills, OHI - weapons - increase damage or number of attacks.
Very good idea, i like it

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Dugi
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Re: World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

Post by Dugi » December 12th, 2012, 3:50 pm

Character wielding different weapons. How it will look like?
Just another weapon in his left hand, this should work without too much effort when we can put several images together to form the appearance of the player.
One ranged weapon + one melee weapon (+shield)
Several (1-3) "slots" for weapons: anything (like two ranged ones) can be equipped
Ranged weapons can be equipped only by Hunters. So only Hunters have the ranged weapon slot. It behaves like another weapon slot, it is like if they were wearing these items at the same time (but swords don't improve bows' properties et cetera).
Otherwise, the players have 1 slot for base weapon (must be a melee weapon), and those who are proficient with shield or dual-wielding will have another slot, where they can but a shield or a another weapon (according to proficiencies).
I propose to rename "shield" to "off-hand item".
In the code, I have named it 'left_melee', but that is simply because of its similar meaning to 'melee' in matters of code, where all pieces of armour are the same thing. Therefore, it's no problem to rename it to off-hand item.
This allows to introduce various "magical books", off-hand weapons, "totems" and so on.
What do you mean?
If you mean items that you just put into inventory and you gain a bonus? I am against this, because it would require us to limit the inventory size, and limited inventory size is quite annoying.
If you mean some totems magicains would use, I would agree, these things should be like something like weaker wands (weapons that improve magic and are very weak as weapons). They might require a proficiency, that wizards, clerics and necromancers would have. This would mean that all classes would have something to put into the off-hand slot.
If you going to use math formula for skills after lvl 5, then it makes more sense to use formula all the time.
I want to use the formula for most skills, but skills like Hunter's Animal Companion should mean different animals for ranks, and last level 5 it would be just stronger level 5 animal.

Regarding progress, I have made a basic support for items. This is not as significant is it may appear at the first glance, because I haven't coded any inventory control.

alluton
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Re: World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

Post by alluton » December 12th, 2012, 4:30 pm

Dugi wrote:
This allows to introduce various "magical books", off-hand weapons, "totems" and so on.
What do you mean?
If you mean items that you just put into inventory and you gain a bonus? I am against this, because it would require us to limit the inventory size, and limited inventory size is quite annoying.
Im pretty sure he means character could equip one book,totem or etc on his left hand instead of carrying shield.
"This game cured me of my real life addiction."
-Flameslash

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Xudo
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Re: World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

Post by Xudo » December 12th, 2012, 5:58 pm

Im pretty sure he means character could equip one book,totem or etc on his left hand instead of carrying shield.
Yes, I have meant this.

What is wand? Looks like you didn't write all information regarding weapons and stuff of this kind.

Some time ago, you told me, that there will be no proficiencies with armor and weapon. Now I see that there will be some.
Are you going to introduce additional kind of limitations to characters or "ranged only for hunters" will be hardcoded?

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Dugi
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Re: World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

Post by Dugi » December 12th, 2012, 6:13 pm

What is wand? Looks like you didn't write all information regarding weapons and stuff of this kind.
Okay, base weapon types:
Dagger - many attacks (?), low damage, backstab
Sword - slightly more attacks, more damage
Rapier - more attacks, pierce damage
Axe - much damage (means more damage than 'more damage')
Mace - more damage, impact
Wand - usually carrying some magical properties, impact
Bow - for ranged combat
Each will have more types, like Axe might be Iron Axe, Hardened Steel Axe, Obsidian Axe and Irridium axe, where each one will have slightly different base properties (some would do more damage and require more attributes, also some petty details like a slight effect on attacks count might be present). The actual design supports 99 item types in total.

The idea was that Hunters (and their hybrids) would be the only characters capable to use bows.
I didn't want mages to carry shields (but because of your idea with magical totems for off-hand for mages, that would be better for them than shields, the class requirement to carry shields might not be added, just for dual-wielding weapons), and I didn't want all characters to dual-wield weapons.
But normal armours will be available for everyone, usual requirements are meant to be mostly strength and level, in rare cases dexterity.

Neither of these things was coded yet, so we can change the plan freely. Effects of items are coded, but not the requirements.

One small change in the possible item modifiers' code - another property named 'effect' is now supported, and it is the same as the usual effect tag in WML, to handle things that we really need but cannot code using the optimised way (for example damages would stack multiplicatively this way). I needed it to handle things like races' properties (improved terrain defence in forests was not a planned modifier, but the presence of elvish race requires it).

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Xudo
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Re: World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

Post by Xudo » December 13th, 2012, 5:20 am

I didn't want mages to carry shields
...
But normal armours will be available for everyone
Isn't it weird, that mages can't use shields and in the same time they can use {Heavy Arcanite Full Plate Mail} (if they stack heavily on strength)?

Some time ago you said, that proficiencies will reduce character variability, thats why you decided not to use it for items.
You have decided to use attribute-requirements as a limitation in this case. Why attribute limitation is not enough for shields (strength) and bows (dexterity)?
Keep in mind, that implementation of proficiencies might require some work to do. Is it worth it for one specific case (shields + bows)?

Dual-wielding allows character to equip two weapons and give him two attacking options.
For example: barbarian with sword and wand.
Will he get sword-attack and wand-attack in the same time? Will he get two "Concentration" attacks (or other ones from talents)?

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Dugi
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Re: World of Wesnoth (MMORPG add-on project)

Post by Dugi » December 13th, 2012, 9:23 am

The idea of limiting the use of shields to some characters is a legacy from the former plan, where sprites were not constructed and had to be drawn. There is no reason for it now, I agree. Same with bows.

However, do we want to allow all characters to dual-wield weapons? Mages dual-wielding wands is not exactly what we want, and it is also quite a good advantage that should be limited to some classes (motivating people to dual-class with those classes). Or shields will have to be very good items.

The idea of the practical usage of two weapons is that the character would have two attacks with each skill listed, but only those with right weapon would be allowed, and when the character attacks the right weapon, the system will make it attack also with the left weapon.

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