Footpad Balance (Dwarf vs Undead)

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Sapient
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Re: Footpad Balance (Dwarf vs Undead)

Post by Sapient »

AxalaraFlame wrote: Crend, that rank means NOTHING. U know it. Besides, gaming balance is made for all players, including the majority of "newbies", instead of exlusively made for "good players" only. Or this game which is played by the thousands would be actually decided by numerable people

Obviously the Multiplayer Developers are the ones making the final decision and they aren't mislead by uninformed opinions. They want proof: replays with both competitors playing at a top level where one is exploiting an imbalance to decisively win the game.

Your post, AxalaraFlame, demonstrates a lack of understanding: Wesnoth MP is not balanced across all skill levels. It cannot be-- not unless all factions were made into carbon copies. Boosting the performance of a difficult-to-master faction, would overpower it when in the hands of experienced players. The goal therefore is for Wesnoth MP to balanced for top-level play.

So where is the harm in allowing uninformed and unproven opinions? Well, mainly it's a mild annoyance or a distraction. Multiplayer balance is not a popularity contest where getting the most votes or posts in support of a proposed change would make it right. However in a forum, the most vocal posters can sometimes drown out the other voices. This is one of the reasons that important development decisions generally aren't made on the forums.

Unfortunately there is not much that can be done about it, from a moderation perspective. Today's bad players may be tomorrow's good players. And while there are restricted discussions in the Developer's Discussions forum where only Forum Regulars can post, however, a lot of the good MP players rarely if ever even use the forums.

The best we can do is keep reminding people that if they want their ideas on multiplayer balance to be taken seriously, then they are going to have to do some hard work and provide the proof and offer up the replays that meet the criteria of proof.
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."

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Rigor
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Re: Footpad Balance (Dwarf vs Undead)

Post by Rigor »

i played some games and lost horribly versus footie spam. the most painful one was the one below: my opponent was lenient for a short time where i could get damage in, but apart of this little mistake i had actually no chance at all to win the game actively, i had to be the passive one. here is the link for the discussion and the replay itself

http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=38186

http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... or#p411347

Image
Figure: Footie

and in this very same thread u have tons of footie-ulf versus the UD action. from 2010. you mean you need something that prooves it, but i think you are scared to just do it.

offtopic:
Spoiler:
what is the goal of this thread, anyways? to find artists to change the club into a knife? convince the devs to implement your change? to rally support for oesis discovery of UDs weakness? whats the time frame anything is going to happen? will anybody be convinced after talking about a change for 10 pages++? id rather like to hear what we, the discontent players, must do, to effectively press a change.

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Crendgrim
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Re: Footpad Balance (Dwarf vs Undead)

Post by Crendgrim »

AxalaraFlame wrote:Crend, that rank means NOTHING. U know it. Besides, gaming balance is made for all players, including the majority of "newbies", instead of exlusively made for "good players" only. Or this game which is played by the thousands would be actually decided by numerable people
I want to answer this, as I was asked about it per PM as well. Take this as an addition to what Sapient said:
I referred to the ladder players, because the ladder is the only available measurement for a player's strength. So, if someone plays regularly ladder games, one cannot only see if he wins or loses, but also against whom he wins and loses, which indicates his strength. I also referred to the ladder, because I think that most good players are active there. Playing matches with random people always has a high chance of playing with not-so-nice ( ;) ) people, while the ladder gives you the opportunity to play only against fair people. This has lead a lot of users to be active on the ladder.

That being said, I think the way a balancing discussion should work is by backing one's opinion up with replays, not with "you all know how it is, so as I say it it is right"-arguments. Visit the thread Rigor linked to, for example. Many of those posts have a replay which allows for more in-depth conversations. As opposed to that, this (and a few other threads in the last time) have more posts saying "I think/know this is so" but without proof. And, as Sapient already said, this won't convince any developer to change the balance.
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Horus2
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Re: Footpad Balance (Dwarf vs Undead)

Post by Horus2 »

Rigor wrote:what is the goal of this thread, anyways? to find artists to change the club into a knife? convince the devs to implement your change? to rally support for oesis discovery of UDs weakness? whats the time frame anything is going to happen? will anybody be convinced after talking about a change for 10 pages++? id rather like to hear what we, the discontent players, must do, to effectively press a change.
Despite i'm personally perfectly fine so far with the nerfed melee only, i'm curious to this one too.

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taptap
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Re: Footpad Balance (Dwarf vs Undead)

Post by taptap »

I would have to change my username from the taptap (the sound of two melee hits by a footpad) to something else... but while I have no informed opinion to contribute I wonder why - when strong player opinion is in favour of a change - MP tournaments (PYRAMID) feature the unnerfed, full-strength footpad from BfW 1.8? Sure, it is a different setting, but still. :whistle:
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Colouredbox
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Re: Footpad Balance (Dwarf vs Undead)

Post by Colouredbox »

taptap wrote:I would have to change my username from the taptap (the sound of two melee hits by a footpad) to something else... but while I have no informed opinion to contribute I wonder why - when strong player opinion is in favour of a change - MP tournaments (PYRAMID) feature the unnerfed, full-strength footpad from BfW 1.8? Sure, it is a different setting, but still. :whistle:
It's a different setting.
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