Dwarvish Guardsman

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Yomar
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Dwarvish Guardsman

Post by Yomar » May 1st, 2012, 6:30 pm

No one thinks that the Dwarvish Guardsman is too overpowered when he evolves ?
I mean ok that he increases charatteristics, but why many of his terrain deffenses increase from 30% to 40% ?
I mean that most of the units keep the same terrain deffence, especially when they don't change unit type, I think that he is allready hard to defeat, but when he increases in levell, he becomes like a wall, lol.
Any comments ?

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The_Other
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Re: Dwarvish Guardsman

Post by The_Other » May 1st, 2012, 7:32 pm

Have another look at the Dwarvish Stalwart...
He's a Level 2 unit and you did all that work advancing him - but his attacks are those of a Level 1 unit. Specifically, his melee is the same as a Level 1 Spearman, with Firststrike taken away. Adding 2 damage to his ranged attack (which is rarely used by choice anyway) does not compensate for the absence of this ability.
So we have a Level 2 unit whose attacks are inferior to a Level 1. Of course he's super-tough - how else is he ever going to survive to advance again?

And, of course, even if he does live long enough to reach Level 3 - his attacks are now equal to the Level 2 Javelineer, gaining +1 melee damage per strike in exchange for (again) not having Firststrike. If anything, I'd say he's underpowered - if you try and use him like most combat units. He's a wall with a face on it - his extreme toughness is compensated by the fact that his attacks are (probably - I haven't actually checked) weaker than any other unit of the same level.
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Dugi
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Re: Dwarvish Guardsman

Post by Dugi » May 1st, 2012, 7:37 pm

The_Other wrote:...his attacks are (probably - I haven't actually checked) weaker than any other unit of the same level.
No. Elvish Shyde does even less damage, but that is a specialist unit not designed for attacking as well.
But your point is valid.

Yomar
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Re: Dwarvish Guardsman

Post by Yomar » May 1st, 2012, 8:37 pm

Interresting comments, ty guys.
Anyway I wonder how a more armoured dwarf increases doging instead of decreasing it, ok maybe decreasing it its too much, but keepeing the same defence would not be a so big underpowerment.

Huumy
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Re: Dwarvish Guardsman

Post by Huumy » May 1st, 2012, 11:01 pm

I think stalwart is underpowered relative to the level 2 dwarvish fisghter. The fighter goes from 38HP to 59HP (21HP increase) where guardsman goes from 42 to 54 (12HP increase). Also fighter physical resistances goes from 20 to 30, why is this?

Anyway I don't think guardsman relative to atleast fighter level up is any good, also if you look at the poacher level 1 to level 2, it's huge increase of damage.

Thief? Non strong thief goes from 4-3 to 6-3 (50% damage increase), skirmisher, ranged attack and HP from 24 to 40HP.

Anyway I'm in hurry :) can't really give any more specific examples now. :))
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Drakefriend
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Re: Dwarvish Guardsman

Post by Drakefriend » May 2nd, 2012, 8:46 am

Yomar wrote:Interresting comments, ty guys.
Anyway I wonder how a more armoured dwarf increases doging instead of decreasing it, ok maybe decreasing it its too much, but keepeing the same defence would not be a so big underpowerment.
Why should you dodge if you do not need to?
First, consider that we are talking about the troops that possibly are the best armored in the setting. In this case, some attacks are absorbed enough that they do not have any effect, negating these attacks, i.e. less chance to hit.
And Guardsdwarves are specialists of defensive combat and holding ground. So one should presume an experienced Guard to be more capable of find good defensive positions (which is what the specific terrain defenses represent) than other dwarves, and to deny his enemy his hits (blocking, his shield, not leaving himself open to attacks).
And who says that the armour of the Sentinels is very restricting, especially if it is the Fighter that gets the resistance increase? Maybe the Sentinels wear armour designed to give good protection and still preserve mobility?
Huumy wrote:I think stalwart is underpowered relative to the level 2 dwarvish fisghter. The fighter goes from 38HP to 59HP (21HP increase) where guardsman goes from 42 to 54 (12HP increase). Also fighter physical resistances goes from 20 to 30, why is this?

Anyway I don't think guardsman relative to atleast fighter level up is any good, also if you look at the poacher level 1 to level 2, it's huge increase of damage.

Thief? Non strong thief goes from 4-3 to 6-3 (50% damage increase), skirmisher, ranged attack and HP from 24 to 40HP.

Anyway I'm in hurry :) can't really give any more specific examples now. :))
The relative attack increase is not that much of compared to othe units (40% in melee, 60% for ranged), but the line has low attack power for high defensive potential.
The Sentinel loses the defense penalty dwarves face on two of the main terrains, getting the default defense value of 40%, and also keeps this value on sand, one of the usual defense penalty terrains. This gives the Sentinal higher survival rates on terrains you would not normally send your dwarves on if you need a tough unit there. And they still have 10% more resistance to every damage type compared to the Steelclad while defending (and at Level three 20% against pierce compared to the Lord) - they are not intended to deal much damage, but to survive being attacked often and vehemently.
Possibly minor bonus: the Guardsman line is the only source of melee pierce for the Knalgan Alliance.

For the position of the Sentinel being overpowered: Advancing an Guardsman requires more experience than a Fighter, but because of their low offensive strength, they are less likely to kill units, so they have to mosty rely on the slower and more dangerous way of gaining experience by fighting alone. This makes a Sentinel harder to archieve than a Steelglad, especially early in the game. This way, a strong increase of power can be justified.
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