Ladder2000 add-on & Fame Race Tournament

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tekelili
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Ladder2000 add-on & Fame Race Tournament

Post by tekelili »

EDIT: Project abandoned, add on deleted.

Current version on 1.10 add-on server.

to use this Data Base:
1-Download Ladder2000 add on
2-Host a multiplayer game with Ladder2000 scenario
3-Right Click on any place of Map
4-Update add on for get new data (daily update currently)

If you are a 2000+ ladder player that play vs other 2000+ one, how to do a COMPLETE REPORT:
Spoiler:
:eng: Please 2000+ players: try be carefull and do complete report for every 2000+ game. It is just a little effort for you, but any miss is a severe handicap for continue this project. I think what it offers pay for a little extra care :wink:

This add-on keep automatic track of a Tournament
For info about Fame Race Tounament: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 80#p519245
Last edited by tekelili on November 24th, 2013, 4:15 pm, edited 21 times in total.
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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tekelili
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Re: Ladder2000 add-on

Post by tekelili »

---Last Edit version 0.2.9---

Ladder2000 add-on is a data base with data of ladder games played with both players 2000+ elo (before start game).
It has data of games played since 1st December 2011.
It has as double propose provide info for balance and help for top players as tool to analyze their games. Well, and also improve fun overall :)

Games data are updated daily (by the moment).
This is possible thanks to 2000+ ladder players colaboration, giving complete report of p1/p2 - factions - map info.
Also my thanks to developers and forum users for help in WML Workshop, this couldnt be possible without them.
And of course to ladder page developers, from wich platafform is very easy get info needed, and enthusiastic colaboration from 1st moment of his administrator Rigor.

Info:
Interface has a system of "Icons" to help user. an Icon is a unit with a label of same team color.
Presence of an Icon on screen, indicate an user action that affect somewhat info displayed. There are 4 kinds of Icons:
- Options (color teal): indicate options chosed by user in Data Base
- Filters (color green): indicate activation of a filter for games
- Player (color purple): indicate activation of player metafilter, that shows all information from a single player point of view.
- Advisor (color orange): Operate data to improve read. Currently has just developed "Average Victory" for General Stats.

There are a couple of stats that are not self obvious:
- Opposition Strength
- Fame.
See link on 1st post to Fame Race for detailed info

these are options availables:
Spoiler:
Last edited by tekelili on February 19th, 2012, 7:00 am, edited 36 times in total.
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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Dunno
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Re: Ladder2000 add-on

Post by Dunno »

It's pretty neat :D

I found only one thing I'd change: in player menu I'd change "cancel" to "all". That's because after you choose a player, and want to switch back to all you have to choose cancel, that's just not intuitional to me...
Oh, I'm sorry, did I break your concentration?

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Cackfiend
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Re: Ladder2000 add-on

Post by Cackfiend »

is this the mod that gives OOS errors if a thunderer is made? and if so has it been fixed? Is it safe to use this mod and should I?
"There's no love in fear." - Maynard James Keenan

I'm the guy who's responsible for 40% Gliders in all hexes... I can now die a happy man. =D

Kolbur
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Re: Ladder2000 add-on

Post by Kolbur »

No, it was the Alternate Era from The_Black_Sword that caused this OOS error I believe. Also the thunderer problem is supposed to be fixed in the latest update of it afaik.
This addon just shows you a lot of interesting numbers, so it safe to use! :D

soul_steven
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Re: Ladder2000 add-on

Post by soul_steven »

yes the add on has gotten fixed and is safe to download. as for this add on its quite awesome to see the stats come to life hopefully when we get more games we will get some more concrete evidence of things.

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tekelili
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Re: Ladder2000 add-on

Post by tekelili »

Version 0.2 is very near to be realeased. Thet means basic structure is stable, code organized for future improvements, stats showed are usefull, calculate speed acceptable and interface friendly. But I have a couple of doubts and would like to hear feedback before take final decision:

- Handicap could be a usefull stat. To no complicate stats by the moment, I am thinking add it just in Faction Stats. Under dta vs each faction, I could add "Commanders Strength:$x" and "Enemy strength" (both stats are alias of elo strength, that is a share of players elo/number of games).

- In General Stats, table with all 36 possible match ups could be replaced. it is very effective for show a lot of info in few space, but all stats showed there can be found browsing Faction sats. I am thinking place instead a more simple list of all 15 no mirror faction match ups and show victory regardless of p1/p2. I think this is a more general data that user coould be willing to see at first glace in General Stats.

After release of version 0.2 main target will be develope more default filters and improve user configuration. As example, if Doc update one of his maps and would like filter that map stats from that date, my will is he can save a filter giving it map name, and just load it to see that map without have to remember exact date.

As Kolbur pointed, this add on dont cause any oos eroors, it is totally safe :)

Edit: Factions match ups was added to ver 0.2
I tested handicap stat and looked not too relevant info, so probably wont be ever included.
Last edited by tekelili on December 28th, 2011, 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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Gallifax
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Re: Ladder2000 add-on

Post by Gallifax »

Where am I supposed to see anything of this addon?

I got it installed quite some time and never see anything anywhere.

Kolbur
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Re: Ladder2000 add-on

Post by Kolbur »

Gallifax wrote:Where am I supposed to see anything of this addon?

I got it installed quite some time and never see anything anywhere.
You need to start it like a game, then right click somewhere and open the data base.

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tekelili
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Re: Ladder2000 add-on

Post by tekelili »

Kolbur wrote:
Gallifax wrote:Where am I supposed to see anything of this addon?

I got it installed quite some time and never see anything anywhere.
You need to start it like a game, then right click somewhere and open the data base.
Also be sure you have installed Ladder2000 instead Ladder_Top20 (was deprecated). And use "update add-ons" in add-ons options to be sure you have all games (more than 60 right now). I am not 100% sure, but probably you need restart Wesnoth after update an add-on to acces new version.

As Gallifax was not only one in be confused this way, I edited 1st and 2nd post with more info. Future doubts answers will be also added there.
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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tekelili
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Re: Ladder2000 add-on

Post by tekelili »

If anyone noted slight variation in fame stats, it is because I am trying find a function that gives curve I desire to "forgot rate". Amount in fame score changes were very low so far, I am just calling attention about this issue because I have a "problem" I didnt foresee when I started this project: I am now "rated" in L2K stats and is a little embarrassing be also the guy that change "rules". I just hope most of 2000+ players know me and trust I am just trying do my best.
when I become quite sure about quality of fame formula, I will add a "global score" to players stats based on it. I was doubtfull if do this for some time, as Ladder has already elo for measurre players skill. But I am finally decided, because everytime I watch "Players Stats" in Data Base, I miss an option to sort players by how good they did so far. And I also think is some kind of "publicity" that can improve amount of 2000+ games, hence can improve balance info.

Only remains a feature I want add soon: a comparation of 1 player stats vs "comunity" stats. Once it becomed developed I will release version 0.3 and will take a deserved rest for some months. I think I did a good job so far, and in fact, this add-on is "overfeatured" for the amount of games recorded so far 8)

Of course add-on will keep being updated daily (or pretty near), so versions will have a date to indicate just a data update.

EDIT: Fame formula was finally tune in ver 0.2.7.1 and added to Players Stats. See 2nd post for exact formula.
Last edited by tekelili on January 18th, 2012, 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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Anonymissimus
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Re: Ladder2000 add-on

Post by Anonymissimus »

I dunno whether you already considered this: You should probably also require information about the version of BfW which is used. Versions from the start of a dev cycle until the start of the according beta series should not be used. (No problem, since these are the least frequently used versions on the MP server.)
This is because maps and their scenario setups can easily change during this time, so any conclusions from the statistics about "this map is imbalanced for this vs that faction" would be polluted.
Since you started it in December, the "lower than 1.9.10" versions should already be irrelevant.
EDIT
Well, and the factions stats can also change previously to the beta series, affecting balance.
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign

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tekelili
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Re: Ladder2000 add-on

Post by tekelili »

Anonymissimus wrote:I dunno whether you already considered this: You should probably also require information about the version of BfW which is used. Versions from the start of a dev cycle until the start of the according beta series should not be used. (No problem, since these are the least frequently used versions on the MP server.)
This is because maps and their scenario setups can easily change during this time, so any conclusions from the statistics about "this map is imbalanced for this vs that faction" would be polluted.
Since you started it in December, the "lower than 1.9.10" versions should already be irrelevant.
EDIT
Well, and the factions stats can also change previously to the beta series, affecting balance.
One of the first things I did before start this project was talk with Rigor to question if were possible ask players for report information. I wondered if were neccesary report BfW version and Rigor told me it wasnt, because Ladder games can only be played with stable versions (a filter for stable versions will be developed with 1.10 release). About changes on maps, main way to deal with is date filter already developed. Doc Paterson is aware of this project (in fact he was decisive to make me start it) and I hope he will record dates of map updates from now in order to deal with maps stats :)
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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tekelili
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Re: Ladder2000 add-on

Post by tekelili »

---Edited several times---
---Definitive for whole season---
I have decided organize a tournament:
Ladder2000 Fame Race

Who can participate?
Any ladder player with 2000+ elo

Organization and sing up
That´s best part of this tournament, zero organization cost. Players dont have to sing up. Tournament results are games recorded in this add on, so all work and tool needed to keep track and show outcomes is already done :D

Who wins?
Ladder2000 Fame Race has a duration of 6 months. Each year has 2 seasons (hence 2 tournaments). 1st season is from 1st January to 30th June, and 2nd season us from 1st July to 31th December. All games and only those games played on current season will count for tournament. The player with most fame at end of each season wins that season´s tourney. Then, a new tourney automaticly starts.
A player must have played at least 15 games in order to have a valid score at end of season. Scores with less than 15 games will be ignored.

How works score (Fame)?
(note: at end of this point there is an example that you might want look first)
Fame is the stat Ladder2000 add-on uses to rank players. It depends of 4 variables: ELO of your oponents, your victory %, total wins you got, and maxime wins among all players a player has.
Exact formula:

Code: Select all

Basic_Fame=(opp. strength+100)*%victory
x=max_victories_of_any_player/player_victories
Forgot_rate(x)=(0.8)^((x-1)/(x^(5/12)))
Fame=Basic_Fame*Forgot_Rate(x)*2
Details:
opposition strength is a share of all oponents elo -2000. Preatty easy to read, 204 means 2204 ELO.
Basic_Fame uses oppsition strength and %victory to be calculated.
X is the value used for Forgot_rate function. It checks who is the player with most victories among all players and divide it by player victories. This means Fame cant be never read as absolute values. Fame is a value related to other players, and is usefull to give a rank among them, not to give a real strength data.
Forgot_Rate is a complicated function that gives 1 for x=1 and 0 for x=infinite. This means that Fame of player with most victories is not reduced at all (it is multiplied by 1) and players with less victories will be multiplied by a value between 1 and 0 (always greater than 0). Here is the graph (note that y axis are positive values, what looks minus signs are axis bars):
Spoiler:
As this is kinda complicated, here is an example. Lets calculate fame of Cackfiend at 31th January for Fame Race:
Cackfiend played 18 games so far. If we add all his oponentes ELO and divide by 18 we have Avg.EL0(after round)=2150
after substract 2000 we have Cackfiend opposition strength was 150
Cackfiend won 72.2% of his games, his Basic_Fames is (150+100)*72.2%=180.5
Player with most victories is Bonobo with 19. As Cackfiend has 13 victories, x will be 19/13
using function Forgot_Rate(19/13) we have 0.916
So Fame of Cackfiend is 180.5*0.916*2=330.676 rounded to 331

Challenge other players
This tournament golden rule is "no rules, no organization". Players are no comitted to play games vs other players. However, there is an "unofficila rule": If you played less than 3 games vs a player during current season, and he challenges you, for the sake of sportmantship, you should accept challenge. This is no mandataroy and is up to players sportmantship accept such challenges. When you already have played 3 games vs a player along season, your sportmanship not longer requires accept challenges from that player.
This unofficial rule try to solve a possible problem. When final date of tournament is near, a player could decide "sit in his throne of fame", and no play more games to ensure his position. If a player already played 3 games vs all current 2000+ players, he is in his right of do that, imho. However, if have less than 3 games vs some players that desire attack his fame, I expect fair play and he accepts challenge.

How see current tournament score?
Download this add-on, host a game on it, right-click and chose Fame Race. May be you want also take a look to History Stats Hall of Fame :)

Are these rules defenitive?
YES. I have closed feedback time and they wont change until next season.
Last edited by tekelili on February 2nd, 2012, 1:02 am, edited 35 times in total.
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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Cackfiend
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Re: Ladder2000 add-on

Post by Cackfiend »

My suggestion: make it a 6 month period rather than a year


other than that, sounds cool
"There's no love in fear." - Maynard James Keenan

I'm the guy who's responsible for 40% Gliders in all hexes... I can now die a happy man. =D

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