2v2 conversation

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Dunno
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Re: 2v2 conversation

Post by Dunno »

Ok, so another TGT edition is over so I think it might be a good idea to revive this thread. One issue I can think of is the map set (again). Just to remind you, here are the statistics from TGT 4 showing how many times each map was played:
  • Castle Hopping Isle - 1
  • Paths of Daggers - 3
  • 4p Underworld - 6
  • Clash - 7
  • Xanthe Chaos - 8
  • Loris River - 9
I'm kinda disappointed with Paths of Daggers, I hoped to see more of games on it. It's a weird map, I don't like playing on it but I love watching it (maybe because it's a bit underplayed). Anyway, as you can see, the map set hasn't changed much since, like, the beginning... I'm not a good 2v2 gamer so I'd like to ask around what might be the issue here and if it's even possible to upgrade any map so it's played more often, or perhaps make a new one from scratch. What do you guys think?
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The Black Sword
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Re: 2v2 conversation

Post by The Black Sword »

I think the problem with PoD is just the size/time factor, same with Terra Dwelve. PoD is actually my favourite map I think, Nerds played in 2 out of the 3 games there. But when you're trying to fit into a schedule and you're never sure how long a game will take or if there will be a third game, Underworld or even Xanthe/Loris/Clash become much safer choices.

I guess, if anyone is designing any more 2v2 maps, that should be taken into account that Xanthe/Loris/Clash appears to be the optimum size.

Btw, looking back on the thread again, I find myself really liking jb's idea of 4g base income. I was probably over-reacting with my suggestion of 6g, losing 4gpt is not trivial and you just need to decrease the incentives for the loyal army strategy a small bit I think.
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jb
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Re: 2v2 conversation

Post by jb »

Hi Dunno.

About changing/upgrading/adding new maps I'm not even sure who to ask these days. I used to be actively involved in upgrading the 2v2 maps (specifically when new terrain was available I did a lot of "re-coloring"). I've sort of retired from any mainline stuff and relinquished my small vote on balance changes. Certainly not through any sort of animosity, its a great team of folks. Just time and effort. Basically, once I started working with Bob the Mighty on The Altaz Mariners I didn't really have time for anything else.

You can start with Doc Patterson if he is still active, he is smart and cares about the maps. At one point we co-sponsored a map making contest that produced about a dozen good maps. We only included 2 or 3 of them, but my point is there are a lot of good map makers out there. Given the right forum and proper feedback a lot of new maps could easily be added. They are tiny in file size, but they do often require maintenance.

http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27549


Just so you are aware, you will get very little done on the forums. You need to get on IRC, that is where the devs hang out and discuss evil plans to destroy the world. If you want to be a cook, you need to be in the kitchen.

Otherwise, just create a TGT map pack as an add-on. You don't need any permission and you have my blessing.

cheers,
jb
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Dunno
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Re: 2v2 conversation

Post by Dunno »

Hm, I guess TBS is right, the map size is a very big factor here. I wonder if there's any easy way to redo PoD so it's a bit smaller :hmm:

Thanks for the reply, jb. Now I kinda feel like I'm reviving a long-dead corpse. I have very little time myself lately, since I'm a first-year student, but I'll think about something during the winter or summer break.
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Velensk
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Re: 2v2 conversation

Post by Velensk »

I don't think that PoD needs to be rescaled.

Map size is as much apart of design as anything else and maps of unusual size can be balanced and I think that in general the game benefits from having a variety of sizes and styles to maps. Most of my favorite maps are either smaller or larger than usual (perhaps no surprise when you look at the ones I design) Now not a lot can be done about the issue of time (which I can see as being important considering how long TGT games last even on smaller maps) but that doesn't mean the map needs to be edited.
That said, I don't think that PoD usually takes all that longer than other maps playing at a normal rate. If you wanted to make it faster, I'd point out the way you have a low density of starting units which are spread thin by the early village grab. You could probably make the engagements happen earlier and be more deadly if you upped the starting gold.
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