GambCiv • A civ-like Wesnoth add-on

[Lollipopz]

Map Size.
5 actions in small map is good. 5 actions in big map, well, it just slows down advancement...

[Gambit]

Ah. Yes. That would suck.

Luckily, you get more AP by building huts. It goes: 5 -> 10 -> 12 -> 13 -> 14 -> 15 -> [...] -> 25
(I just want to plug the video on the first post again. I think it would be helpful.)

[Captain_Wrathbow]

Congrats, you've managed to draw me back to Wesnoth. I've had very little time for Wesnoth lately, but when I saw this, I just had to make some time to download it and try it out.

I wasn't disappointed. It's certainly a big improvement on GEB; (which I also loved, BTW) the action points system is fantastic. I have a few questions, though:
1) What is the purpose of trading posts? Can you use them or interact with them?
2) How do you load units onto transport ships? I can't seem to figure it out; perhaps I'm missing something obvious...

Lastly, a suggestion or two:
A diplomacy system would be great. Right now, the goal has not changed from vanilla wesnoth - kill the enemy leaders. Currently, there's no incentive to do anything other than spam huts to get AP, build a couple universities, power-level some units, and steam-roll the enemy. It would add a lot more variety if you could negotiate with other teams, sign alliances and treaties, etc. Maybe multiple victory conditions (like in Civilization) would be cool too.
Anyways, I'm just throwing all that out there; ideas are worthless, I know, and I'm sure I didn't suggest anything you couldn't have thought of on your own. You've done a great job so far, and I'm eagerly looking forward to what awaits GambCiv in the future.

[Gambit]

You can use trading posts in two ways (though only the first is available in the current release, the other is in the bleeding edge version for testing)
1. You can right click on an opponent's trading post (if you have a unit nearby) and give them some amount of some resource.
2. You can right click on your unit that is near an opponent's trading post and convert that unit to their side.

1 will allow you to sell land or give gifts. 1+2 will allow you to trade units. You want to build these in a relatively neutral zone where you don't mind your opponents sending a unit.



As far as diplomacy, I've always wanted players to role play/do that themselves. And it does happen in games with enough players.
A mechanical system tends to lead to strict binary values. Ally or enemy.

But I encourage GambCiv games to be set up with FFA and then players come up with their own things. Such as letting another player know that those troops you're moving dangerously close to him are only there to defend the border. They won't cross.

Or paying an "enemy" for a bit of help against someone else without having a full blown alliance.

And also giving conditions like: "if you start to build in this region, I will attack you".

In fact, I tell my opponents that I'm happy to build peacefully forever if they don't attack me.

I just prefer diplomacy and such to be looser than anything I could program would allow.

[Captain_Wrathbow]

Makes sense. I see what you mean about diplomacy. It would definitely be much different in a game with a lot of actual people. (so far all I have done is played a 2-side hotseat game controlling both sides, so I can figure out how stuff works.)

Are transport ships usable for actually transporting units? If not, will that be implemented?

[Gambit]

Oh whoops forgot to answer that. Transport ships' transporting function is not yet coded. It's on the todo list though. It's one of the things blocking the next release:

Todo list before 0.3 alpha

1. Transport ships actually working
2. Invent and implement a tier 2 way of gathering material
3. Ships can be repaired when near shipyards
4. Fishing boat breaks down over time and needs repaired
5. Season rotation is slightly random
6. All returns (what you get for harvesting certain things) should be variables to allow for easy changing in the future
7. Implement "barbarian" faction that you can assign to computer controlled sides
8. Remove Herobrine

[Captain_Wrathbow]

Ah, I see. Thanks.


One last question before I leave you alone:
Do you plan to have a "tech-tree" or any sort of research system? Personally, I think it would be really neat, but I could certainly see the sense in leaving that aspect out because it could easily get too complicated.

[Gambit]

I like the natural progression that I have right now.

You start out only farming wheat and tobacco because that's all you've got, but at some point you can slowly afford to switch to mines for more efficient gold gathering. And then a little after that you can afford to switch to fishing boats for gathering food.

And then eventually you can afford a university or afford to start building a navy.


Also I feel it's best to show people everything so that they have something to work for/save up for. If things were hidden until artificially unlocked, it would only increase how hard it is to learn to play.


And you don't have to leave me alone
I appreciate all the feedback and questions.

[Mabuse]

I like the natural progression that I have right now.

You start out only farming wheat and tobacco because that's all you've got, but at some point you can slowly afford to switch to mines for more efficient gold gathering. And then a little after that you can afford to switch to fishing boats for gathering food.

ummm, natural in what way ?
seriously, planting wheat is of course far more advanced technologically than simply gather some fishes

btw, this is just nitpicking, no advice to change the gameplay.
but i couldnt hold back on this one.


EDIT:
As an advice to make the game more natural i would simply suggest that:


in beginning you can simply "go hunting" at the cost of an action point.
(no need to plant or build something)
then later you may rely on wheat for more effcient food gathering
(maybe a tech in university unlocks the ability to build farms or something)

this would make the start also somewhat easier since food-gathering would be more easy.

as said just a suggestion, as i only read "natural way"

[Gambit]

I like the natural progression that I have right now.

You start out only farming wheat and tobacco because that's all you've got, but at some point you can slowly afford to switch to mines for more efficient gold gathering. And then a little after that you can afford to switch to fishing boats for gathering food.

ummm, natural in what way ?
seriously, planting wheat is of course far more advanced technologically than simply gather some fishes

You build a boat and go out into deep water and gather lots of fish with nets.

[Captain_Wrathbow]

And you don't have to leave me alone
I appreciate all the feedback and questions.

In that case, I have another question.
What's the difference between the normal GambCiv era and GambCiv Extended? I could probably figure this out myself, but I'm too lazy so I'll just ask you.

[Gambit]

Nothing yet.
But when I make it do something it will be:

GambCiv will contain all the core content, but no custom units or images. Only the host needs to download. Anyone can play or observe. Great for getting new players to see GambCiv. "Try before you buy download".

GambCiv Extended will have strange new units and stuff. Everyone playing has to have GambCiv downloaded.
Three of the new units are mostly finished already if you use debug mode to create them. They're using some of Zerovirus's awesome art. No attacks of their own, but they absorb all the damage for nearby allies.

[Gambit]

I just released version 0.3 (beta)

Changes:

• Recruiters now allow you to get Sergeants
• Added an option to disable seasons.
• The map preparer (the thing that deletes terrains that GambCiv doesn't understand) has a few more terrains in that I forgot
• Further macroization to decrease file size.
• More comments if someone is trying to read the code
• You can now give AI teams the "Barbarian" faction. They don't get stuck in that "not enough AP" infinite loop when recruiting. Give them low starting gold and adjust their base income depending on how challenging you want them (6 easy, 10 medium, 18 hard)
• When you use "destroy" on village terrain you will now be asked if you are sure. No more accidentally permanently erasing your gold mines.
• You can no longer use gold mines that aren't yours. Capture them first.
• You can now trade your units to other teams at their trading posts.

Now all that I have planned before 1.0 is allowing transport galleons to actually transport units. If anyone has any really amazing ideas, please let me know.

The extended era has been commented out. I won't have time to work on it until much later.

edit: There was a bug with hitting "nevermind" after choosing to trade a unit. This has been fixed and updated on the add-on server/addons.wesnoth.org, but the tagged download on github is still affected.

[AlaskanAvenger]

I'm not sure how this would work, but Lich_Lord and I were playing a battle on Weldyn Channel and we kept sending peasants back and forth in the early game, burning any undefended structure, chopping down trees, leveling mountains and in general causing chaos on the other side, and I was wondering, what if you made a wall "unit" that could be built kinda like railroads, fencing off large areas from a casual peasant, or at least forcing them to take detours. Make them have around 20 or 30 hp, easily destroyed by a serious attack, but something that would keep you from sending peasants across the lines at will.

[Gambit]

There are two ways you can accomplish this that are already in the game:

1. If you build a hut, it will protect the hexes directly around it from enemy terraforming and destruction. To remove it you must actually capture the hut (upgrading the hut to a watchtower will double its protective range).

2. Use recruiters to turn peasants into soldiers (Build recruiter. Move peasant within three hexes of it. Right click peasants. Choose "Join the army"). A few heavy infantrymen will definitely make the enemy think twice about getting too close with those peasants.