Planning system/Whiteboard feedback

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fog_of_gold
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Re: Planning system/Whiteboard feedback

Post by fog_of_gold »

Alink wrote:[...]There is support for horizontal mousewheel.
I'm really interested in how this should be done, since I don't know any mousewheels supporting this. The only thing I imagine, is, that you can middle click to scroll in every direction and true you can do that, but you wouldn't have written "the middle click is ok" if this part was meant to say this. So what do you mean by that/how should that be supported?

Alink wrote:I also think that block scrolling is bad. I suggest "Tab pressed + mousewheel" to do this. And maybe even "Tab + clicks" on units for othe WB actions like delete or execute.[...]
Then I really ask you why to include this feature. If you get your fingers to the Tab, you get to the pgUP/-DOWN, too. And using the pgsscrollin, you do not need to hold the key and you do not need to click. All this would make this feature left unused and then, it would really get disturbing because people would think, the game is buggy since this feature isn't used and therefore they don't know it.

Also:
Alink wrote:[...]And maybe even "Tab + clicks" on units for othe WB actions like delete or execute.[...]
You can't delete or execute actions with Tab and you usually do not use Tab if you want to really use the WB(White Board?), so again, what do you mean by that?
Alink wrote:But I didn't really checked if it was intuitive or UI wise. The middle click is ok, but maybe it's a problem if you forget that you still have your finger on Tab and just want to select/deselect the usual way. Or just add visual clues to prevent that (cursor, visible 0-length WB arrow ...)
Believe me, you won't forget that. And the middle click is not ok, since this is really a more often used feature, since this feature can be used in every direction.
I think all the features you are suggesting aren't very KISS and I think, even if this feature, as far as I suggested, has its flaws, its usuages would be a lot of helpfuller than its flaws are disturbing.
edit:
What's about making have one unit two actions? It happens very often you are sure what's a good actions and what's not but you can't decide which action you should do. One example:
You have a wounded bowman. He's got 23 hitpoints. It is very likly he'd surive a flame drake, but he wouldn't surive a drake clasher. But for any reasons, you know that there's coming a drake glider in the next round. Also, supplies are coming in two rounds. The bowman is able to surive the drake glider, even if he hit 3 times, if he's healed by a white mage. So what should you do with your white mage? My suggestion would be this:
image:
You can add new actions to units but if a unit has more than one action planned, the action(s) can't be executed.

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em3
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Re: Planning system/Whiteboard feedback

Post by em3 »

fog_of_gold wrote: I'm really interested in how this should be done, since I don't know any mousewheels supporting this. The only thing I imagine, is, that you can middle click to scroll in every direction and true you can do that, but you wouldn't have written "the middle click is ok" if this part was meant to say this. So what do you mean by that/how should that be supported?
I have a mouse with horizontal scrolling capability; the wheel tilts left and right. I saw mice with a pair of wheels, too.

EDIT: Not that I want to brag or something.
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fog_of_gold
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Re: Planning system/Whiteboard feedback

Post by fog_of_gold »

And even if it's true; in my opinion, it's still better to use covering mouses.

fog_of_gold
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Re: Planning system/Whiteboard feedback

Post by fog_of_gold »

bug: The planned actions won't be saved over a savegame.

Boucman
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Re: Planning system/Whiteboard feedback

Post by Boucman »

not a bug, more like a missing feature, and i don't think it will be implemented right away...

as gabba stated, we are trying to build a solid base before moving on to secondary features
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gabba
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Re: Planning system/Whiteboard feedback

Post by gabba »

Just FYI people, I've added a new "execute all" command bound by ctrl+y by default. It executes all actions until the first attack.
If nothing serious comes up it'll be in 1.9.2.

Anonymissimus
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Re: Planning system/Whiteboard feedback

Post by Anonymissimus »

I used to almost always play with the "delay shroud update" setting on. What I'd really need is an option to temporarily enable whiteboard, much more than temporarily disabling it, since I use undo much more seldom than using it not (so to say). You could use the same key (tab) ?
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
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gabba
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Re: Planning system/Whiteboard feedback

Post by gabba »

Anonymissimus wrote:I used to almost always play with the "delay shroud update" setting on. What I'd really need is an option to temporarily enable whiteboard, much more than temporarily disabling it, since I use undo much more seldom than using it not (so to say). You could use the same key (tab) ?
If I understand correctly what you're asking for, it already works like that. Tab is a temporary toggle and works both ways.

Anonymissimus
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Re: Planning system/Whiteboard feedback

Post by Anonymissimus »

Indeed. :shock: (This is very new I hope :P)
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign

gabba
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Re: Planning system/Whiteboard feedback

Post by gabba »

Anonymissimus wrote:Indeed. :shock: (This is very new I hope :P)
Actually it's like that since 1.9.0 ;). I take note that it may not be easy to discover, but I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in the release notes.

fog_of_gold
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Re: Planning system/Whiteboard feedback

Post by fog_of_gold »

I'd just like to answer to the bug#17060 [Gna.org]. I'm going to do this here because it can proberly start an discussion:
I think you even don't need to do this. It's properly better and easier to remove the waypoint feature. You can do them with the whiteboard by doubleclick and got, in my opinion, completly useluss.

fog_of_gold
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Re: Planning system/Whiteboard feedback

Post by fog_of_gold »

Suggestion: Show visually that a unit is already planned.
It happens very often that more than one unit is moving on one path. Than, it's very difficult to understand which units are already moved and which not.

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Reepurr
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Re: Planning system/Whiteboard feedback

Post by Reepurr »

I don't use Whiteboard. Great feature, but I don't use it. Just because.
But every time I load or start another scenario (which you do a lot on campaigns) then it turns back on.

It would be nice if you could turn this off. Or did I miss something?
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fog_of_gold
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Re: Planning system/Whiteboard feedback

Post by fog_of_gold »

If it happens this way, you know how to undo this. Untick 'menu' -> 'preferences' -> 'Enable Planning Mode on start'.

gabba
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Re: Planning system/Whiteboard feedback

Post by gabba »

fog_of_gold wrote:I'd just like to answer to the bug#17060 [Gna.org]. I'm going to do this here because it can proberly start an discussion:
I think you even don't need to do this. It's properly better and easier to remove the waypoint feature. You can do them with the whiteboard by doubleclick and got, in my opinion, completly useluss.
You're probably right, but knowing how much time features take to implement, I'm a bit hesitant to rip out someone else's code like this. I'll discuss it with the author of the waypoints code.
fog_of_gold wrote:Suggestion: Show visually that a unit is already planned.
It happens very often that more than one unit is moving on one path. Than, it's very difficult to understand which units are already moved and which not.
Not sure I understand what you're saying. Maybe you could make a quick commented screenshot?

It may or may not be related, but keep in mind I'm most probably gonna change the visuals so they show each unit as if it was already at its destination, and leave a ghost at the start position. This way visuals would be very close to what delay shroud updates gave you, except with a very transparent trailing arrow for each unit. I experimented with that during GSoC, and while coding that way was harder I think it looked better and was less confusing.

Now if my december exams could already be over...

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