SXC Development

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

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-stf-
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Re: SXC Development

Post by -stf- » February 23rd, 2012, 8:13 pm

Another map should be ready to test on 1.8 server tomorrow

@vultraz: thanks for map update, I will use it in next version for 1.10 server
Last edited by -stf- on February 23rd, 2012, 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vultraz
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Re: SXC Development

Post by vultraz » February 23rd, 2012, 8:16 pm

You're welcome; glad to help. :D
Creator of Shadows of Deception (for 1.12) and co-creator of the Era of Chaos (for 1.12/1.13).
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-stf-
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Re: SXC Development

Post by -stf- » February 24th, 2012, 11:58 am

Version 0.2.89 is now ready for testing at 1.8 server (added map SXC_Mythos), version for 1.10 server will be ready after testing period on the 1.8 server.
0.2.90 - some small fixes
0.2.91 - SXC_Mythos - reduced amount of gold in chests
0.2.91a (Wesnoth 1.10)
0.2.92 - added map SXC_Chambers
0.2.93 - fixed fake leaders moving from position and never returning back, updated SXC_Chambers map
0.2.94/a - updated SXC_Chambers + added to Wesnoth 1.10
0.2.95-96/a - fixes for Giant Spider on recruit lists (5 maps) and for fake sides sometimes recruiting units of it's normal AI side (which would affect games where are used different factions for AI side and fake side)
0.2.97/a - some more fixes and removed already updated maps from unbalanced directory

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SpoOkyMagician
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Re: SXC Development

Post by SpoOkyMagician » March 15th, 2012, 4:31 am

I know you have done a lot of good testing, balancing, and what not but, I still think the stats need to be lower A LOT more. I know this sounds annoying/frustrating but, can you cut all the damage/strikes in half again? If not, I may just make my own version. Nothing against SXC it's just a bit slow in later turns and it begins to annoy me after a while. If you won't do this let me know and I will see what I can come up with.

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ancestral
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Re: SXC Development

Post by ancestral » March 15th, 2012, 12:02 pm

You could also try removing all but one attack from each unit at the start of the AI's turn and restoring them at the end of the turn. That might cut the time it takes significantly.
Wesnoth BestiaryPREVIEW IT HERE )
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Re: SXC Development

Post by -stf- » March 16th, 2012, 1:24 am

Optimizing maps for speed will be next step after adding maps, problem is, that HP changes for enemy will need also changes for players in shop and that means all maps will need to be rebalanced again. Keep in mind that changing HP down will make them easy kill without further changes. It's not only about HP changes, but also attacks, upgrade costs, lower upgrade steps, enemy upgrade changes (recruits) and it can take weeks, maybe even months to set correct values for everything. As I said, I want to finish adding maps first, so the pack will be more or less complete and balanced at current settings and then i can work on balancing other things (speed is one of the factors). Probably, SXC will not be updated during that period (or the older version will be renamed so both would coexist - but that means replacing all SXC_ macros with i.e. SXCO_ against possible collisions in macros). Anyway, completed map updates are planned as last version for 1.8 server and further changes will be only for 1.10 server.

Removing attacks (and adding them back) on AI turns would mean really big changes in macros and probably also another slowing down because that would need individual changes for all unit types and also it would make the game easier because player could predist which attack will be removed and take adequate armor and be practically invincible. Only full change can work and that will take time or again situation from 1.8 when there was only 2-3 maps and other maps were added back after long testing. There is already version 1.10 and it's not fully finished yet.
Last edited by -stf- on March 16th, 2012, 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mabuse
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Re: SXC Development

Post by Mabuse » March 16th, 2012, 1:28 am

spookymagician wrote:I know this sounds annoying/frustrating but, can you cut all the damage/strikes in half again?
what do you mean with "in half AGAIN?".
the stats didnt get cut in half in sxc.

SXC has the good old SX stats. (that is 50 HP for 100 Gold, 1 damage for 20 gold, 1 strike for 75 gold). ok, i just play and see the strikes get more expensive by 10 gold per strike

as said, the standard SX isnt suited for long maps. the stats increase too fast.
however cutting the stats while preserving the old gameplay is possible.

luckily i already developed the cut down stats and they work amazingly well in SXRPG.
an old 6000 HP unit is now at 1875 HP. while the engine simply goes down at 6000 HP, 1875 HP is very well playable. well, even higher stats like 2500 are playable. (2500 would be the equivalent of about 8000 HP). You can feature well 300+ turn games with the SX RPG system (ok, enough self-praise). no restrictions, berserk+slow no problem ;).

btw, i just play MountainsOfDoom. really neat that -stf- or pkz or whoever that was has included that good old map in the pack. it is tiny and easy. quite fun. thats the maps old SX was designed for. longer7bigger maps need a system with reduced stats.

if someone is interested you can come over in the SX RPG thread (dont wanna hijack something) and i can give you something to start with balancewise.
Last edited by Mabuse on March 16th, 2012, 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SXC Development

Post by Mabuse » March 16th, 2012, 1:39 am

-stf- wrote:Optimizing maps for speed will be next step after adding maps, problem is, that HP changes for enemy will need also changes for players in shop and that means all maps will need to be rebalanced again. Keep in mind that changing HP down will make them easy kill without further changes. It's not only about HP changes, but also attacks, upgrade costs, lower upgrade steps, enemy upgrade changes (recruits) and it can take weeks, maybe even months to set correct values for everything. As I said, I want to finish adding maps first, so the pack will be more or less complete and balanced at current settings and then i can work on balancing other things (speed is one of the factors). Probably, SXC will not be updated during that period (or the older version will be renamed so both would coexist - but that means replacing all SXC_ macros with i.e. SXCO_ against possible collisions in macros). Anyway, completed map updates are planned as last version for 1.8 server and further changes will be only for 1.10 server.
dont make much of a head about balancing reduced stats as i already did it.

now it all depends how far you already gotten away from the original SX, since SXRPG is absolutely based on the original and features just reduced stats. (to be exact: damage and strikes cost was doubled. HP cost was increased (accordingly) by factor 3.333333. Creep and Boss stats were adjusted accordingly. i dont know exactly the formulars, but all is saved in Stat tables, so you can just convert your values accordingly. so yu have something to start with.)

prices for abilities, weapons, weapon specials, movement, armor ect stay all the same.
so all what changes is damage, strikes, HP of heroes (upgrades) and enemies.

heroes need a slight HP boost at start, and need get +30 HP. maybe also +2 damage would be no harm. (since now you dont get 50 HP for 100 gold, instead just 15 HP. in the beginning this can cause problems, but that is sorted out by a +30 boost on start as said.)

it was not that complicated as i had thought, but its also not like cut damage/strikes in half and make HP cost 4 times as much (cuttting damage/strikes in half results in a quarter of the original damage - BUT you also have to take to default stats into account, which have a higher impact, and the START and initial values is not really much different.

if you want some stats and values to start with i can post some.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

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SpoOkyMagician
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Re: SXC Development

Post by SpoOkyMagician » March 16th, 2012, 8:04 pm

Well, my in my vision of sx, I think damage/strikes should be low or left alone. (default stats with some mod perhaps.) This is most likely not how you all feel it seems. However, if I may make a comment/rule of thumb, I would like for it to be used if you can.

Rule of Thumb for SX in general

Maximum damage should NOT exceed 1000. * (including damage/strikes)
Maximum hitpoints should NOT exceed 1000. (not including yellow potions. I will leave that alone. 2000/1000 is okay with me.)

Anything above this is pointless in my opinion. This means, a maximum of 100-10 damage-strike ratio. (* ignoring lawful/chaotic. I have no opinion on this. I play neutral. * As for rage/zerker, that is up to you.) This is my opinion on the maximum I'd recommend. You don't have to use it but, I think that is more than fair. What do you think?

edit: I know you are still balancing. Please continue to do so. However, do keep this in mind.

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Heyub_CS
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Re: SXC Development

Post by Heyub_CS » April 25th, 2012, 3:46 am

I am extremely upset monsters cease to drop gold after a certain turn on SXC Adventure. I must use few words lest I be taken for a troll, if that explains how I feel about this.
Heyub, C.S.

-stf-
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Re: SXC Development

Post by -stf- » April 29th, 2012, 7:13 pm

Only side 6 and 7 (first 2 sides) don't give gold for kills after certain turns in some maps for game balance. Side 8 and 9 are not affected.

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AxalaraFlame
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Re: SXC Development

Post by AxalaraFlame » September 9th, 2012, 7:42 pm

A bug. There are simply too many same topics of SXC developoing, so I was confused where should I send this one
Attachments
The bug of SXC.png

-stf-
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Re: SXC Development

Post by -stf- » September 11th, 2012, 7:59 pm

Looks like too many addons bug which was only reproducible on windows but so far not appearing in 1.10 version, seems like you are the first one who reached limit in new version. There must be something bad in windows version that is not present or it is way greater in linux/mac, like the program memory heap size or limited memory alocated for wesnoth cache. I have 116! addons installed on linux and i don't have such problem in 1.10.x versions of wesnoth. Here is my list of addons in linux so you can compare:
my addons
Aeranor_Book_I
Aeranor_Book_I_Audio
After_the_Storm
Ageless_Era
Age_of_Dinosaurs
AI-demos
Akladian_Music
An_Elven_Elementalist
A_New_Order
Antar
Anya_of_Willshire
A_Simple_Campaign
AtS_Music
Au_dela_de_l_horizon
Bad_Moon_Rising
Birth_of_a_Lich
Brave_Wings
Cavanagh_the_Conqueror
Cities_of_the_Frontier
Dov_MP_Maps
DruidSiege
Drums_of_War
Dystopia
Era_Khalifate
Era_of_Four_Moons
Era_of_Magic
Extras_for_Elf_War
Fall_of_Knightmare
Fall_of_Silvium
Fate_of_a_Princess
Five_Fates
Fix_golden_hex
Four_Champions
Galuldur
Ghostly_Calls
Girl_unDead
GLE_Extended
Great_Legend_Era
Grnk
Chaotic_Era
Children_of_Dragons
I_Dream
Imperial_Era_Fixed
Invasion_from_the_Unknown
Japhel's_Journey
Legend_of_Far_North
Legend_of_the_Invincibles
Love_To_Death
Lumivalgekese_Paastmine
Mines_of_Dvergrs
Music
Mystery_Campaign
Northern_Rebirth_Remake
NX-Music
NX-RPG
O_o_D_D
Ooze_Mini_Campaign
Orocia_edited
OrociaRandomMod
Prinzessin_Nilwyn
Rebellion_in_the_North
Return_of_the_Monster
ReturnToNoelren
Rise_of_the_Elementalist
Roar_of_the_Woses
RPG
RPG_AMLA_Era
SA
Salt_Wars
Saving_Elensefar
Secure_the_North
Shadow_Mages
Shameless_Crossover_Excuse
Sir_Galvin
Story_of_the_Slimes
Story_of_Wose
Stron_Black
SurvivalUpgrade
SurvivalXAddOnPacks
Swamplings
SXCollection
SXCollectionRemake
SXRPG_Music
Tales_from_Glerum
Tales_of_the_Setting_Sun
The_Barbaric_North
The_Dark_Hordes
The_Devils_Flute
The_Earths_Gut
The Fall of Wesnoth
The_Fellowship_of_the_Clay
The_Fires_Of_Pride
The_Gutter
The_Ice_Age
The_Invincible_Wall
The_Militia
The_Rise_of_Genesis
The_Tale_of_Crelanu
To_Lands_Unknown
Trapped
Trinity
UMC_Music
UMC_Music_Book_1
UMC_Music_Book_2
UMC_Music_Book_3
UMC_Music_Book_4
UMC_Music_Book_5
UMC_Music_Book_6
UMC_Music_Book_7
UMC_Story_Images
Undead_in_the_Sewers
Unwelcome_Guests_Series
Up_From_Slavery
WesCamp_Translation_Insertion_Test
Wesnoth_Lua_Pack
Otherwise it can be corrupted and/or old version files in cache subdirectory of your configuration directory. In this case i can suggest to erase all of the files looking like cache-{version}-{checksum}.gz in this directory and restart wesnoth.
Possible problem can be aso insufficient memory for running wesnoth (under about 1GB with swap partition 2GB is ok here/linux/). In that case you can try recompile wesnoth with following setup option for cmake (along with ther options you are using): -DENABLE_LOW_MEM=ON
This could set something to handle the memory differently a it could solve it too.

Easy way to check the first mentioned issue is to remove some other larger addons and recache to see whether it will help

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AxalaraFlame
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Re: SXC Development

Post by AxalaraFlame » September 13th, 2012, 8:11 pm

Hmmm :hmm:

Except for having creepwar and zombieapocaclypse, conquest series, 18th centry warfare, the great quest, the haunted woods, you have covered all my add-ons.

I still believe u should double check it

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mx--
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Re: SXC Development

Post by mx-- » September 19th, 2012, 1:12 pm

Hi, people!
I am sorry if this is off-topic here, but i see in this topic -stf-, AxalaraFlame, SpoOkyMagician and other reputable players and developers i've met in game. And I ask you for hint.
I assume that the situation around so-called "Jinnaraka Best SXC" has contained some conflict. Moreover, i heared, someone even got banned. I don't want discuss this conflict, i just want avoid his way (to not follow him into ban ;-)
First, hint me please a hyperlink to the topic, where the map "Cold War" was discussed. Or I must start a new?
Second, hint me please about author's rights (i hate word "copyright") of Jinnaraka: what of his texts i must leave unchanged in his add-on, and what texts I may change in my post-developement of his map "Cold War". Better, hint not here, but in the topic about Jinnaraka's maps.
And third, i am experienced C++ programmer, but i am beginner in WML. If someone is ready to consult me, say plz.
P.S. Sorry for (probably) poor English.

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