Bold New Maps

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Doc Paterson
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Re: Bold New Maps

Post by Doc Paterson » September 23rd, 2010, 10:42 pm

LightFighter wrote:
Doc Paterson wrote: Yes. Are you familiar with the issue? A barrier drops on turns 4, 5, and 6, gradually opening up the two halves of the battlefield so that units can cross over/see into the other half of the map. From player 2's perspective though, during player 1's turn, fog is not updating (for them) in real-time, and is only doing so at the stat of their next turn. This enables P1 to send a unit to the edge of P2's fog, do a bit of scouting, and duck back behind the fog-line, without P2 being able to see what unit it was. Not a big deal, as P2 will usually see the unit anyway after advancing 2 or 3 hexes, but nevertheless, we don't like it. :?
You mean, fog is removed for side 1, and replaced at the end of the turn? Or that player 2 cannot see what side 1 is doing even if they should?
Fog does not update from player 2's perspective, while player 1 is taking his turn. It updates for P2 when P2's turn begins, but that doesn't allow them to see player 1 units that would have otherwise come into view before moving away. Try it out against a human player 1 if you don't understand what I mean.
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Re: Bold New Maps

Post by bumbadadabum » September 24th, 2010, 5:32 am

Doc Paterson wrote:
LightFighter wrote: You mean, fog is removed for side 1, and replaced at the end of the turn? Or that player 2 cannot see what side 1 is doing even if they should?
Fog does not update from player 2's perspective, while player 1 is taking his turn. It updates for P2 when P2's turn begins, but that doesn't allow them to see player 1 units that would have otherwise come into view before moving away. Try it out against a human player 1 if you don't understand what I mean.
I don't know if that's possible... I'll try.

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Re: Bold New Maps

Post by Doc Paterson » September 25th, 2010, 10:06 pm

LightFighter wrote: I don't know if that's possible... I'll try.
Many thanks. I wish you luck. :)
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tekelili
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Re: Bold New Maps

Post by tekelili » December 8th, 2010, 1:03 pm

Have you ever thought about make a 2v2 version of arcanclave citadel? I think it can be perfeftly playable as it is right now for 4 players.
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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Re: Bold New Maps

Post by Doc Paterson » December 8th, 2010, 2:15 pm

tekelili wrote:Have you ever thought about make a 2v2 version of arcanclave citadel? I think it can be perfeftly playable as it is right now for 4 players.
I have thought of that, but haven't tried it yet. I think the potential interactivity there could be great though. Maybe I'll do some tinkering some time in the near future (or, if you'd like to post a draft, please do).
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silent
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Re: Bold New Maps

Post by silent » December 31st, 2010, 12:45 am

Just thought I'd bring up a query on one of the new maps, thought it was a potential imbalance that P1 could steal P2's far left village (at least as knalgans,drakes and UD) on unfolding space.

The save is from a ladder game I was observing when they disconnected. Looking at the map though, you should be able to see where the village is that can be stolen.
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Re: Bold New Maps

Post by Doc Paterson » December 31st, 2010, 1:53 am

silent wrote:Just thought I'd bring up a query on one of the new maps, thought it was a potential imbalance that P1 could steal P2's far left village (at least as knalgans,drakes and UD) on unfolding space.

The save is from a ladder game I was observing when they disconnected. Looking at the map though, you should be able to see where the village is that can be stolen.
I didn't make that map, and I agree that it has a history of profound imbalance. :P (This thread isn't about new *ladder* maps though, it's about Arcanclave Citadel and Aethermaw, so this shouldn't be posted here anyway.) U-Space is only one of several maps that are legal for ladder that have pretty questionable balance in my opinion. Anyways- There were all sorts of abuses, including free village steals, on older versions of that map. I think Kolbur is in charge of the current one, so you may want to take this to him.
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Kolbur
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Re: Bold New Maps

Post by Kolbur » December 31st, 2010, 9:51 am

silent wrote:Just thought I'd bring up a query on one of the new maps, thought it was a potential imbalance that P1 could steal P2's far left village (at least as knalgans,drakes and UD) on unfolding space.

The save is from a ladder game I was observing when they disconnected. Looking at the map though, you should be able to see where the village is that can be stolen.
The map version used there is horribly outdated.
It's probably from the old competitive map pack which was finally deleted recently.

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Re: Bold New Maps

Post by Doc Paterson » December 31st, 2010, 3:42 pm

Kolbur wrote: The map version used there is horribly outdated.
I had a feeling that would be the case, but was too lazy to check. :P
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Re: Bold New Maps

Post by Doc Paterson » January 5th, 2011, 5:29 am

After many, many, many hours of work :P I've just completed and done several play-tests of map #3 of the Bold New Maps family. This map dares to ask the question: What could be more awesome than flaming stone scorpions? 8)

The map is called Thousand Stings Garrison, and it delves a little further into the territory that Arcanclave explored, with long-reaching keeps that aim to bring players that long-dreamed-of but always unbalanceable concept of unstealable villages practically in the middle of a 1v1. :D Unlike Arcanclave however, the large keeps, although they are completely continuous, do not allow a leader to recruit units anywhere they like. There are, in fact, only eleven "open" recruiting hexes on each primary keep, but these open slots are separated by quite a bit of space (though there are a few "clusters"). The groupings and spacings of the recruiting hexes serve a number of purposes, and among other things greatly weaken any attempt to pull off extreme-banking-powered village retakings.

There are 9 villages per side, and each player starts with 125 gold. There is a modified starting time of day.

It is a complex map, with a real lot to think about, and I know that that's not everyone's cup of tea- but your Freelands and Weldyn will always be there! Put them down for a bit, and give this baby a few tries. ;)

*****It is absolutely imperative that you use the config file. *****

Otherwise it will be a mess, and you'll be able to recruit wherever you like on the large keeps, which is not at all the idea.

As with the other Bold New Maps, replays are most useful. You can PM them to me if you prefer, but posting them here would be best, as that way we'll all get to view and discuss them.
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I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
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Caphriel
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Re: Bold New Maps

Post by Caphriel » January 5th, 2011, 2:13 pm

Doc, is there any chance you can post images of your Bold New Maps (tm) so that forum members who are browsing from a computer without Wesnoth can enjoy them? :mrgreen:

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Re: Bold New Maps

Post by Doc Paterson » January 7th, 2011, 4:53 am

Caphriel wrote:Doc, is there any chance you can post images of your Bold New Maps (tm) so that forum members who are browsing from a computer without Wesnoth can enjoy them? :mrgreen:
Alright, alright, though that neutralizes my ploy of forcing people to actually download them to see them. ;)

Here's Thousand Stings Garrison, with a sample recruit for player 1:

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s230 ... rrison.jpg

And here are those same units doing a sample village collect:

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s230 ... /Comp1.jpg

I also recently made a few microscopic changes (which are reflected in these screenshots), and upped the starting gold to 150, from 125.

(EDIT: And no, you don't control the scorpions. They're just impassible, flaming statues. :))

Here's the latest version-
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Re: Bold New Maps

Post by Doc Paterson » January 26th, 2011, 1:55 am

For anyone who hasn't seen this yet, here's an awesome match between Dauntless and Kira1, on Thousand Stings Garrison.

http://ladder.subversiva.org/gamedetail ... %3A56%3A32

:)
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Re: Bold New Maps

Post by Sapient » January 26th, 2011, 7:28 am

Doc Paterson wrote: That sounds like a good idea, though maybe we should seek the advice of a WML Master first, in regards to the base problem, before going this route.
Fog recalculation doesn't normally occur due to WML-triggered events.
To force a fog recalculation for side 2, use this code:

Code: Select all

[redraw]
  side=2
[/redraw]
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Re: Bold New Maps

Post by Quetzalcoatl » January 28th, 2011, 8:41 am

Thank you :). I updated scenario file so it will be fixed in next release of random addon.

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