Medieval Combat (0.9.4 Beta)

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xbriannova
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Re: Medieval Combat

Post by xbriannova » June 12th, 2010, 5:02 pm

I've actually thought about this a long time ago when I was brainstorming for a simpler project to do. What I feel should be done is a less complex mod (obeying the KISS philosophy) that rebalances all of Wesnoth's units.

The way I'd rebalance the units would be different. I don't recommend allowed 1 soldier to do 1 damage each as a standard. Considering how medieval warfare works I don't think every soldier would be able to fight someone else in formation immediately. Also, if you want to reduce the effect chance would have in combat, I'd suggest reducing the terrain defence instead.

If it was up to me, I'd divide everything by 2, so Elvish Archers would get 35% in forest and Heavy Infantry would get only 5% in shallow waters. The way I see it, terrain defence would then represent tactics divided/minused by how poor the terrain is sustainable towards the success of these tactics- be it guerilla warfare, discipline, strategic retreat, special training, etc. In this context it would mean that Elvish Archers had such a high defence most likely due to the way they operate in warefare, most likely using guerilla tactics, camouflage and stealth.

How well a unit could survive would then depend mostly on resistances. In this context for most units these would most likely increase. Resistances would then represent how well the soldiers in a unit would be able to resist (duh :D) attacks through the use of armor, equipment including shields, as well as formations, tactics and training. A spearman wearing leather and using shields could have about 20% to both blade and pierce, maybe 10% to cold, the standard 20% to arcane but would have 0% to impact and fire. A swordsman wearing plate and using shields and swords, in addition to having better training, would have maybe 40% to both blade and pierce, 20% to cold, maybe 10% to impact...

I don't think adding a base building module to the game would improve gameplay... One more thing... With HP and resistance that is so much higher, the attack damage would most likely need a bit of increasing but as for the number of strikes, you could consider making it 1 for all melee attacks. Considering ranged attack is used at many yards/metres away, I'd say an archer would have several shots before they had to engage in melee.
Current Projects:

UMC Campaign Guardian Order.
Main Campaign Thread: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26895
Art Thread: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 28&start=0

Hiebe
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Re: Medieval Combat

Post by Hiebe » June 12th, 2010, 7:31 pm

I like the idea of being able to build castles and stuff. You would have to be able to be either a gold producing or a scientific community or something like that. Evryone chooses different path that could lead to big armies of cheap units or small armies of sepcialize troops

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PsychoticKittens
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Re: Medieval Combat

Post by PsychoticKittens » June 12th, 2010, 7:54 pm

@xbrian : 100 people fully evading 100 attacks doesn't happen, so after lowering terrain defense (highest is 40, on terrain that currently doesn't exist in the maps for it, without a building unit on it, so average is now about 20% evasion) and made it a secondary resistance. Units have less health because generally a person wouldn't survive being struck by a weapon of equal tech-level (steel v. steel for instance) without having proper armor (resistances are essentially how often a persons armor would nullify a blow, for instance 50% pierce resistance means half of a bowmans attacks would be deadly, or damaging in the case of units with more than 1 hp.) 1 damage is not the most common damage, infact more damage is more common. Though the highest from a single blow is 8 (with a charge unit, 4-1 the lancer)

As a whole. Your changes are different than mine. There aren't elven factions or anything of the like. There are already civilization building styled mods that do fairly well, but I'm not going for that as much as something along the lines of Age of Empires, Heroes of Might and Magic (3), or Halo Wars, where you have a small building group that builds units.

The Population style is what makes this a mod. I wouldn't have random single people run around doing 1-1. Infact this would be entirely unbalanced if people only were able to build in singles (since units could instantly die, attacking first would be the only thing important, its still pretty important, but population helps) Of course, until I can get it to stop making peoples games crash, that doesn't matter.

I do not follow KISS with my mods. Ever. If wesnoth was a religious book, I'd be the Anti-K(r)iss(t). Or Legion, I like that guy too.
Creator of: Mercenaries Era; Modern Combat
Future Projects: Faunima: Land of Monsters
Temporarily Dropped Projects: Zombie Horde

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xbriannova
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Re: Medieval Combat

Post by xbriannova » June 13th, 2010, 4:14 am

Hmm alright... Your changes are logical and acceptable. Afterall, anything can happen in a mod but... In my opinion, a small degree of 'evasion' should still be allowed. What I feel is that we should try to envision the war in this mod on a unit level instead of an individual level. As I mentioned in my previous post, terrain defence or 'evasion' should actually represent tactics that could potentially undermine an enemy's attempt to attack. Guerilla Warfare, for example, allows 'units' in real life to attack without being counterattacked... Well, sometimes. Besides, compared to 70%, 35% is like nothing. 5% from HI in water? I don't think anyone would even hope for the HI to 'evade' one attack hahaz.

As for buildings... Well... I guess as long as it doesn't start cluttering the map I guess it should be okay right? Personally I won't mind, and I'm not that much of a hardcore fanatic of the KISS philosophy anyway- I follow it in a regulated manner, the same way I do with Occam's Razor and the Utilitarian way of dealing with people.

Other than that, our ideas are essentially quite the same, just articulated differently. Good luck for your add-on! :)
Current Projects:

UMC Campaign Guardian Order.
Main Campaign Thread: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26895
Art Thread: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 28&start=0

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PsychoticKittens
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Re: Medieval Combat

Post by PsychoticKittens » June 14th, 2010, 8:45 pm

Either way, this project is temporarily dropped due to problems with crashing wesnoth. I'll get back to it when Modern Combat works again.
Creator of: Mercenaries Era; Modern Combat
Future Projects: Faunima: Land of Monsters
Temporarily Dropped Projects: Zombie Horde

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Captain_Wrathbow
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Re: Medieval Combat

Post by Captain_Wrathbow » June 14th, 2010, 9:29 pm

PsychoticKittens wrote:crashing wesnoth
:augh:
PsychoticKittens wrote:when Modern Combat works again
:augh:

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PsychoticKittens
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Re: Medieval Combat

Post by PsychoticKittens » June 14th, 2010, 9:36 pm

I fixed 2 and a half of the problems with Modern Combat today, and A_Guy was already working on the other major one. So what's with the "Oh Noes!" face at "until Modern Combat is fixed"
Creator of: Mercenaries Era; Modern Combat
Future Projects: Faunima: Land of Monsters
Temporarily Dropped Projects: Zombie Horde

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PsychoticKittens
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Re: Medieval Combat

Post by PsychoticKittens » June 22nd, 2010, 6:39 pm

0.2.5 Alpha still has the lurking "randomly crash when you attack" problem. Know the crashing has something to do with population, but no idea what causes it for sure.

Archery Range Units can't fight yet due to Real Ranged not working yet, the only Siege weapon that works is the Battering Ram. Siege weapons still don't have art.

Walls and moats can be constructed, and are currently on the players side until gates work, in which case they'll be moved to the 10th null side.

Reinforcing and population works, it just occasionally crashes when you fight, entirely random from what I can tell so far. Saves are corrupted for now, and I'll look into that.

Teh Ubar Checklist of Doom:

Code: Select all

Checklist:
	(Farm Income
		Add Town Food Use to Regular Income
	Fix Research Menu** (Red Options don't show properly)
		Fix No Worship Point Cost **

	Fix Merge ** (Merge Max Units doesn't add hp)

	Fix Attacking (sometimes crashes due to population.)

	Wall Upgrades- Regular and Gate
		Gate Effect (change regular walls to null side)
		Death Event (change terrain to dirt or rubble or something on death)
	(Farm Construction
		Raze Farm*
	<Market Trade Goods* (When Castle is Founded, Generates 2 Supplied, and 2 Demanded Goods. Supplied give 2x bonus, Other give 3x bonus, and Demanded give 4x bonus from towns)

	Message Ability*

	Caravan Pickup*
		Caravan Dropoff*
		Caravan Steal*
		<Caravan Trading*

	Fix and Finish Real Ranged**
		Add range and min-range variables**
			Add range and min-range variables to splitting**
			If unit has Double/Triple Attack modify variables and give more attacks**
		Targets in Forest take Half Damage
		Shooters on Hills/Mountains have increased range.

	Add "Threat Check"*
		Disallow Construction/Upgrade/Repair when Threat Check goes Bad.*

	Fix Multi-attacks.** Double attacks forever?

	Fix Save Corruption

	Gold Problem - is because village_income or tithe_income is 0 or undefined sometimes.

*can upload without
**definatly required

Later:
	Balance moar
		-Check Over All Unit v Unit Matchups
	Replace Objects with Variables if the Game lags.
Creator of: Mercenaries Era; Modern Combat
Future Projects: Faunima: Land of Monsters
Temporarily Dropped Projects: Zombie Horde

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Lollipopz
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Re: Medieval Combat

Post by Lollipopz » July 1st, 2010, 5:03 pm

PsychoticKittens wrote: If I have to increase max_hitpoints to increase hitpoints over max (for increased population) I might put a 99999 limit. which hopefully would never, ever be reached. ever.

It would never be reached, as long as its larger than tiles on map.
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PsychoticKittens
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Re: Medieval Combat

Post by PsychoticKittens » July 3rd, 2010, 4:34 pm

That was just how I did it in a previous macro for mercenaries. It's done properly here. There isn't a limit that I can think of. I think someone had a catapult with 40something thousand afew weeks ago (since its reinforcement had a typo and was free to reinforce)
Creator of: Mercenaries Era; Modern Combat
Future Projects: Faunima: Land of Monsters
Temporarily Dropped Projects: Zombie Horde

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Lollipopz
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Re: Medieval Combat

Post by Lollipopz » July 4th, 2010, 10:10 am

Is this even supposed to work yet? When I try to do something, it says something about invalid WML, missing number in [gold].
"Neighbour knocked my door at midnight. Instead of sugar he wanted brains. I gave bullets."

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PsychoticKittens
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Re: Medieval Combat

Post by PsychoticKittens » July 5th, 2010, 12:20 am

that error only occurs on in the beginning of a players turn, due to the income event, but has yet to cause any game-quitting oos's or actual differences between players notable.

Quite afew things already work. using right clicks. Due to the entire thing not being finished I'm not quite teaching people how to play yet. It's on the add-on server so I can get my friends to help me test that things work for other people than me. Which so far most of them do, or if they didn't they were fixed.
Creator of: Mercenaries Era; Modern Combat
Future Projects: Faunima: Land of Monsters
Temporarily Dropped Projects: Zombie Horde

Darkmage
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Re: Medieval Combat

Post by Darkmage » July 5th, 2010, 11:48 am

Hum, I am have two peoblems ATM. 1st, the map 1vs1 Whirl does not work, it apperas the little error thing typical of the scenario/map not found, anyway, the rest of the maps can be loaded. 2nd, whenever start a game with Medieval Combat(era) on one of your maps, I move the founder, but it just don't let me found(the menu when right clicking does not appear).(and i have it on a road tile)


For the first issue, I guess that my OS beign an Ububntu should cause errors not caused in windows, as to the gobbowars MP campaign caused until last release, I will check that, anyway, the 2nd problem bugs me a bit more...


Edit(after check): I only saw 1 difference, the map of whirl was Whirl.MAP while the rest were(for example) Canyons.map.
I renamed the Whirl.MAP to Whirl.map, still somehow it does not work...

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PsychoticKittens
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Re: Medieval Combat

Post by PsychoticKittens » July 5th, 2010, 3:05 pm

you said "on" the road tile. He's supposed to be adjacent for the option to show when right clicking. His original position is fine for this.

I'll try looking into the problem with the Whirl map.
Creator of: Mercenaries Era; Modern Combat
Future Projects: Faunima: Land of Monsters
Temporarily Dropped Projects: Zombie Horde

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Lollipopz
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Re: Medieval Combat

Post by Lollipopz » July 5th, 2010, 7:03 pm

Got this working, and it looks great! Can't wait till its finished. But one thing is confusing, as it seems that army that attck first, will eventually win... Great group system. I had similar in my mind, but you got it working.

EDIT: Bug noticed. Using skirmisher against walls, double attack gives unlimited attacks...
"Neighbour knocked my door at midnight. Instead of sugar he wanted brains. I gave bullets."

Resistance is futile. Ponies will take over the internet.

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