Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

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fabi
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Re: Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

Post by fabi » March 10th, 2010, 11:48 am


sergi34
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Re: Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

Post by sergi34 » March 13th, 2010, 2:55 pm

New version, new problem. I've upgraded to 1.7.14 but now in the first scenario, Kalenz arrives to the sign post on the bottom left of the map and.... NOTHING HAPPENS.

The scenario doesn't finish in Victory condition, just the game goes on and on... so what's wrong now?

thanks,

Sergi

fabi
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Re: Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

Post by fabi » March 13th, 2010, 2:57 pm

sergi34 wrote:New version, new problem. I've upgraded to 1.7.14 but now in the first scenario, Kalenz arrives to the sign post on the bottom left of the map and.... NOTHING HAPPENS.

The scenario doesn't finish in Victory condition, just the game goes on and on... so what's wrong now?

thanks,

Sergi
Please see http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29137.

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Pentarctagon
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Re: Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

Post by Pentarctagon » March 28th, 2010, 10:15 pm

fabi wrote:In order to make it available Wesnoth must be started on the command line with the "--debug" parameter added.
im using windows 7 64-bit and wesnoth 1.7.15, and the legend of wesmere is playable even if i start wesnoth by double clicking the .exe file.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
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fabi
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Re: Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

Post by fabi » March 29th, 2010, 7:37 am

Pentarctagon wrote:
fabi wrote:In order to make it available Wesnoth must be started on the command line with the "--debug" parameter added.
im using windows 7 64-bit and wesnoth 1.7.15, and the legend of wesmere is playable even if i start wesnoth by double clicking the .exe file.
Yes, I have changed that.

DurinMusicspear
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Re: Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

Post by DurinMusicspear » April 12th, 2010, 10:58 am

I tried out the first few scenarios of the MP version of Legend of Wesmere with a friend and i must say i really like the idea of MP campaigns!

However i found a lot of things that does not work so well in my opinion:

* With 2 players and only one castle, recruiting get kinda slow and you have to keep your leader close to the castle for many turn to be able to recruit a full army. I guess the problem is not that easy to solve since the only way i can see to solve this is to redesign the map and have one castle for each player.

* Each player seems to start with too much gold (we played in Normal mode) and we got huge armies so the map got quite crowded and it was really no challenge do defeat the enemies. Maybe the gold should be divided by the number of players?

* When one of my teammates units advanced in level during the turn of the AI enemy he did not get to choose what the unit would advance to, it just picked the first one it seems. (An elvish archer became a ranger).

* Sometimes the AI players just stay in their castle and play very defensive (not moving units at all unless you get very close to the castle) for example the top left orc team on the second scenario.

Thats all for now, keep up the great work! :)

BigCheese
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Re: Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

Post by BigCheese » April 13th, 2010, 3:26 pm

DurinMusicspear wrote: * When one of my teammates units advanced in level during the turn of the AI enemy he did not get to choose what the unit would advance to, it just picked the first one it seems. (An elvish archer became a ranger).
It happens to me on other maps too. I don't think his is LoWmulti specific.
DurinMusicspear wrote: * Sometimes the AI players just stay in their castle and play very defensive (not moving units at all unless you get very close to the castle) for example the top left orc team on the second scenario.
I noticed this too
DurinMusicspear wrote: keep up the great work! :)
I couldn't agree more

H-Hour
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Re: Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

Post by H-Hour » April 14th, 2010, 1:33 pm

I just want to throw some encouragement to this. Having a multiplayer campaign is about the only feature I'd ask for and I was very excited to find out that it was in development. Is this playable with 1.8.0 if we run with -debug? I'm torn between wanting to help test and wanting to wait to have a solid first-experience of the campaign.

I really only play with one other friend. We're not particularly great at the game, but is the balance really, really off? Or just not quite perfect yet? I don't mind some variance in difficulty, but would rather wait for a playable version than run into scenarios that are simply impossible (at least for our skill level), or a campaign that can't be completed because of show-stopping bugs.

Yogibear
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Re: Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

Post by Yogibear » April 14th, 2010, 1:40 pm

Automatic leveling of units if its not your turn is actually a feature, not a bug. It was once decided to not require interaction of a player if it is not his turn.

LoW and balance:
Well, from what i have heard it looks like atm it is rather way to easy instead of being too hard :wink: .

LoW and bugs:
We looked at the first two scenarios and fixed everything we could find regarding carry-over stuff: Gold, recall lists (even side colors :P ). The bad news is that we haven't done a systematic testing yet and that you very well might find some bugs in later scenarios. I hope it's not the case but experience proved me wrong one time too often :? .


Nevertheless, we would be very glad if you gave it a try :) .
Smart persons learn out of their mistakes, wise persons learn out of others mistakes!

Jadewind
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Re: Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

Post by Jadewind » April 15th, 2010, 7:58 pm

fabi wrote:
sergi34 wrote:First problem. I cannot select difficulty level on Legend of Wesmere Multiplayer.

So I suppose it is on Normal Level by default. But I need to select Easy Level. Twice I started first scenario playing with my wife and twice I couldn't pass it. It's deceiving...
Yes, that feature is not implemented yet. This have to wait until 1.9.
The Campaign starts on HARD but remember that you have 2 players which doubles your starting gold.

Do you feel comfortable with a text editor?
It is easy to tune the campaign to MEDIUM or even EASY.

Just go for the _main.cfg in data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere. Adjust the #define HARD in the #ifdef MULTIPLAYER statement.
I just wanted to say, its NORMAL, not MEDIUM.

H-Hour
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Re: Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

Post by H-Hour » April 17th, 2010, 10:24 am

Alright, we played the first scenario and part of the second last night. No major bugs found, but I'll report my experience so far, and add on as we go through. With these comments, I'm just throwing out anything that came up as odd or worth thinking about, both in terms of technical functions and gameplay. Not all of it may be useful, but I figure if I share it you'll know and can make the decision yourself on what's important or not. Keep in mind we're not very experienced players.

Multiplayer Lobby:
- It was extremely easy to load up the campaign, great! Should we be worrying about any of the settings? Or is checking "Use Map Settings" enough to override any of the options when creating the game?
- Perhaps it would be nice if campaigns had some kind of prefix so that they were easy to identify in the map list? [mpc] for multiplayer campaign or something?
- Before loading the game, if the game creator changed the color of any of the players, they were switched to an Elvish Captain. Once the game loaded, each player was still a Fighter or Archer, so it's not a critical problem. Just something to look at at some point. Perhaps the color selection could simply be disabled, so you don't share a color with an enemy? It can be confusing for the other player.

First Scenario:
- Because you have to run almost immediately, there aren't too many balancing issues here. You could probably reduce the gold given on startup, since the leaders have to run as soon as they recruit.
- I suspect that the Elvish ally is supposed to stay in his keep and wait for the Orc's to reach him, but just thought I'd double-check that behavior in case it's a mistake.


Thanks! I'll make more reports as we go through, so if this is too verbose or you want me to track specific things, let me know. I marked all the units we ended Scenario 1 with, their xp/hp/traits, and made sure they all loaded correctly for Scenario 2 recall, and so far so good.

BigCheese
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Re: Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

Post by BigCheese » April 17th, 2010, 12:31 pm

The bugs we encountered so far are:

Ka'lian under Attack I:
"Galtrid"s unit/model is named "Kalenz". "Galtrid"s ally (second player) is named "Landar".

Ka'lian under Attack II:
Purple&Black AI play defensive (defend only their castle) as soon as true "Kalenz"&"Landar" arrive (turn 9?).

Elves' last Stand I:
Wrong "Kalenz"&"Landar" aka "Galtrid&Ally" from "Ka'lian under Attack" are back. This might not be a bug in "Elves' last Stand" but an import problem from "Ka'lian under Attack".

Elves' last Stand II:
We finished "Elves' last Stand" and the game shut down. I don't think it crashed, since there was no error message. Is the multi campaign at this stage supposed to end after "Elves' last Stand"? What confues me is a) there ain't a replay file generated and b) we ain't send back to the lobby or mainmenu, but "crash" to the desktop. Is this intended or should the multi campaign continue?

PS: Playing "Elves' last Stand" together is really great :)

H-Hour
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Re: Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

Post by H-Hour » April 19th, 2010, 10:48 pm

BigCheese wrote: Ka'lian under Attack I:
"Galtrid"s unit/model is named "Kalenz". "Galtrid"s ally (second player) is named "Landar".
We just played this tonight and experienced the same problem.

Also, I suppose it's been a long-standing decision in the game to not share fog between coop players. But is there any way we can set it up to share fog in the future? It made communication a bit tedious for us...

H-Hour
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Re: Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

Post by H-Hour » April 28th, 2010, 1:52 pm

We just finished Ka'lian Under Attack I/II last night. No major bugs found. A couple thoughts:

1) As BigCheese mentioned, when Kalenz arrives the orcs mass in the northern-most orcish base. The western orc leaves himself unguarded but sends everything he has up top. Then the base is full and they can't recruit anymore, and they don't attack until you get close.

2) I had a look at the comments about the SP version. It looks like the ally has been a problem there as well. We experienced this and thought it very frustrating. Though he did take some of the damage our units would have received, he more often disrupted our ability to set up defensive lines, stole our XP and drew in enemy units we weren't prepared to take on.

3) Now, remember we're not great at this game, we're playing on Normal difficulty. But I think we're finding it quite difficult to level as it seems we ought to. I think this is because in the last scenario the dwarves stole our kills and in this one Galtrid is stealing our kills. Both scenarios would have been much more difficult if the allies had not been helping out (although Galtrid's help was as annoying as it was useful), and I think they could have been more difficult. Though we're suffering more casualties than it seems we ought to, we're easily able to replenish, and I suspect that's because the coop balance still isn't worked out right in terms of gold.

Anyway, that's us so far. We haven't found any bugs BigCheese hasn't already pointed out. Looking forward to the next one.

fabi
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Re: Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

Post by fabi » April 30th, 2010, 9:17 pm

H-Hour wrote: Also, I suppose it's been a long-standing decision in the game to not share fog between coop players. But is there any way we can set it up to share fog in the future? It made communication a bit tedious for us...
Shared fog view is now enabled for the allied players.

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