Winter 2009 - Map Making Contest! UPDATED

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Re: Winter 2009 - Map Making Contest!

Post by ps7 » November 21st, 2009, 4:26 pm

Sry,I forgot "zip" them.
Here it is.
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Re: Winter 2009 - Map Making Contest!

Post by Erlend » November 21st, 2009, 4:53 pm

This is my map. I made it in 30 min so I dont know if everything is balanced. I have played it some times and most of the players think it's fun and asks for a rmk, but I dont got a replay of it right now. (I'll put it later...)

If any1 wants to play it, just pm me ;)

Gimme feedback, and have a nice day :)


EDIT: Player 1s big advantage will be fixed shortly
This was the only pic sive I could find right now :P
This was the only pic sive I could find right now :P

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Re: Winter 2009 - Map Making Contest!

Post by Erlend » November 21st, 2009, 7:15 pm

I made a small change to try to minimize player 1's advantage. I tried it, and I must say that it worked :=)

Well, If any1 wonders if I think that my map really got a chance.. It dont
The main reason of why I put it here was to c what other players think if my map ;)

I hope I get lots of feedback..


EDIT..: Readers, rate my map and tell me what to change to make it better.
This may be the replay, but I dont got a program to check. Tell me if it's not and I will host a different 1
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Version 2,1
Version 2,1

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Re: Winter 2009 - Map Making Contest!

Post by Sapient » November 22nd, 2009, 6:12 am

Well you've got a lot of guts to enter a Royal Rumble map into an official map contest. I think the odds of this or any Rumble-style map winning are like one in a million, though (mainly since they are inherently unbalanced).

I suggest you (and anyone entering the competition) create a separate discussion thread for your map's modifications and for any feedback. It will get kinda chaotic to post all the feedback and new revisions for all the maps in this thread. You can always edit your first post, too. "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."

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Re: Winter 2009 - Map Making Contest!

Post by krotop » November 22nd, 2009, 8:42 pm

Cheers to all map makers!

Here is my contribution to that stimulating contest, the Courtyard, meant to be played as 1vs1. This map was partly inspired by the side corridor from The Moon Shrine developped by Velensk for his EoM map pack. I found that idea quite nice to develop, so that the corridor becomes more than a nicely decorated side path, and make it a part of the battlefield.

The context however is completly different from the Shrine's, the battle is meant to happen within the east gardens of a large town. Nature took back part of his rights and what was probably well arranged gardens and chanels let the place to rough terrain and flooded areas.

The map is donut shaped, with a standard starting castle excentered closer to the side corridor, and an outpost toward the left to support the farthest villages. The terrain is rather flat and opened, with little terrain variation in order to keep consistence with the map theme : there's no sand, snow, mountains, mushrooms, or caves. I also tried to put some shine here and there to break the monotony of the forest/hill packs placed on a flat grassland.

For now the corridor is considered as lit cave, and it'll be a permanent ToD-neutral zone, not only because I find it more consistent with the fact there's an implicite roof in that area, but also to test if it can create new game mechanics. However, I can admit it could lead to balance problems with ToD dependant factions pushing on "opened" terrain at favorable ToD and then make an agressive retreat in the neutral zone, and it will be deleted if such imbalance is verified. I am equally worried with the outpost : I think the front is wide enough not to make defense too easy, but if it leads to stalemate games I might remove the outpost and change the village pattern accordingly.
The following files features the map scenarios and text file to unzip within your add-on folder, plus a game of me against my kittey, with elves and undeads.
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Don't trust me, I'm just average player.
Game feedback for the Nightmares of Meloen
Art feedback by mystic x the unknown

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Azgart's Fall

Post by ezysquire » November 23rd, 2009, 11:19 am

In a time before Delfador, Prince Azgart was banished to a secluded valley that rose from a labrynth of caves. Left to rot there after betraying mankind, an undead horde swept through the cave, crushing what small resistance Azgart could muster with his rabble of murderous thieves and thugs who had accompanied him to those vulgar depths. As word of Azgart's demise spread through the realms, so too did the rumours that his treasure horde lay there. Now, four new wandering heroes converge on the site of Azgart's last stand in search of this bounty. Three more great warriors are now destined to fall in this same cave, leaving the spoils for the last man standing.

Azgart's Fall is a four player free-for-all map.

There are many gameplay and design features to it which I hope will generate some bloody battles and provide a breath of fresh air on the somewhat underplayed FFA format.

The main features:

A map with a broad border for each player that is difficult to comprehensively populate owing to just 24 villages. The village breakdown is 6 stable villages for each player with 4 contentious villages (all in the centre).
Making it hard to populate a whole quadrant has the effect of encouraging combat situations and makes aggressive moves tempting. It also creates uncertainty and the combination of vast no mans' land attached to the contentious villes makes these villes swap hands quite regularly.

Leader play is an important aspect of this map and the multi-keep element and the close quarters in which the sides find themselves fighting in ensures leaders are moving on most turns instead of chilling on their thrones on a map edge somewhere. The low village count also means that units can't necessarilly be recruited every turn, thus freeing leaders to engage in combat.

Variety in channels to attack through is another feature of this map. There is great choice in places to attack from and this adds to the uncertainty and challenge of the FFA. Some points of attack do suit different factions, providing certain advantages, but to compensate for this there are counter points of weakness. The most obvious example of this is for dwarf around the centre cave villages. Dwarf strength there is compensated for by dwarf weakness on the north/south edges of the map where there is little defence for them. The 'lonely mountain' that sits aside the large no mans' land is not a great defensive position for dwarf as it truly is in the middle of nowhere and can easily be run around.

Finally, it was important to create a FFA map in which once a player dies the others can continue. As is regularly the case in FFA, 'gg' is often called once a player dies. This is not necessarilly the case at Azgart's Fall. The low village count and broad spaces create opportunities for the fight to continue and I'm confident that games won't collapse with the death of a player. see below for further info on how the game changes with the death of a leader

I could go on with more talk about design and I'm happy to discuss this further on request, but as for now, the above is the crux of the map.

Overall I hoped to make a map that would encourage people to start playing FFA more regularly. The 3p FFA maps tend to be unpopular as players don't like the 2v1 situations that tend to occur there and King of the Hill is a much too large and arduous map for most. The intention of Azgart's Fall is to find some middleground between these complaints and get a fun, exciting and challenging FFA map into Wesnoth that gets played regularly.

Owing to time restraints and a closing in of deadline (December 1) the replay i have included is not a complete "game over" replay but at 18 or so turns certainly shows a range of combat situations and provides a good taste of the kind of action to be expected at Azgart's Fall.

Credits: Thanks to soul_steven, Veliq and Natasiel for their input and in particular Natasiel for his growing wml expertise.

UPDATE: I have managed to find some more time to test prior to the December 1 deadline and have consequently found that Northerners were struggling with the number of villages. So I have added another one - although i loathed to do it - but I think it was necessary. I placed it with the swamp and forest cluster near a cave entrance. This hex was picked because it would not aid FMA, gave fish another role, helped counter poison and likely create more east vs west conflict. I removed a forest hex from the forest cluster also.

UPDATE TWO: Well thanks to some late night efforts from Natasiel and an ever growing worldwide frustration with windows, this FFA now has something quite unique to it. After some discussion it was agreed that for FFA to improve it required speeding up. As a working start to achieving this there is a new concept involved at Azgart's Fall. When a player kills an opposing leader, the remainder of the now dead leader's units will join that player's army.
I must stress that this is a working model for the moment and I have ideas about potentially better balancing it. But for now this new model needs some testing just to see how it goes before a complete wml noob like me attempts to consider more complex possibilities.
Thanks again to Natasiel for his great work.
The map is now also slightly revised though mainly for aesthetics since I learned about the use of the shift key in editor.

I don't have a replay for the latest version, so I hope this is ok.

map version 1.2
map version 1.2
map doucment and cfg zipped
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Last edited by ezysquire on November 30th, 2009, 11:48 am, edited 9 times in total.

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Re: Winter 2009 - Map Making Contest!

Post by Nagi » November 23rd, 2009, 2:14 pm

here is my map

few things:
-small/medium sized 1on1 map
-playing the map is risky. Think well and act fast!
-i tried to keep the map fast and fun
-small unbalance in the middle but i'll consider what shall i do with it (if the map is going to next step ofcourse)
map and replay
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Last edited by Nagi on November 24th, 2009, 11:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Winter 2009 - Map Making Contest!

Post by Drunken_Pirate » November 23rd, 2009, 11:52 pm

Hi Gang,

So I like short games, aside from the occasional survival, I'll play Isars Cross more than anything.
I always thought there should be more small 2v2 maps for players who just wanna jump in and
play a game in 30 minutes or so. What I noticed when I started making maps is that the smaller
the map the harder it is to balance.

The map I am presenting here today has gone through MANY tweaks and has been played
a ton. I have not submitted any replays because most of them are from other versions of this
map that I then looked over. This latest version I think is the best and most balanced.

I think any factions can win here, it really depends on the players and of course luck.

Start with 50 gold each, and set the order to 1221 and have fun. I'd particularly like to
hear feedback from you experienced players who are good at finding major flaws. The only
thing I noticed is that player 1(me) and player 4 almost always win. Of course I like to
chalk that up to skill, but if there is an inherent benefit to starting, please let me know.

Thanks and enjoy!
50 Gold, 1-2-2-1, North vs South
50 Gold, 1-2-2-1, North vs South
4p - Valley of Death.rar
Download Me, Play Me!
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Re: Winter 2009 - Map Making Contest!

Post by Rigor » November 24th, 2009, 8:34 pm

i played ur map and it looks fun.

1221 is best you say? i am not entirely sure but isnt that a bit too much for swarming fractions like orcs to have some fat units in the castle hexes? ESPECIALLY becasue the villages are mostly in the backyard so healing, placing new units to the front and not doing anything but defending would lead to a certain victory.

u can play me in the evenings to prove me wrong.

i think having starting positions changed would solve the problem and enable 1221 nevertheless.

heres a ffa replay
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Re: Winter 2009 - Map Making Contest!

Post by Drunken_Pirate » November 24th, 2009, 9:45 pm

Thanks for the comments. To a certain extent you are right, one could hole up and cycle units to defend. But it is such a small map that with a skirmishing unit or a few quick kills that plan can backfire pretty easily. I made some more changes that may or may not be better, I am unsure so here is a .jpg of the newest version. I moved the forests for players 1/3 one tile over and replaced them with a rubble/sand tile next to the center village. I also changed the grass to dirt road for aesthetics.

Also I am including a replay of a match I just played which was hella fun!
Newest Version
Newest Version
Very fun matchup, a few player swaps midgame and the tables turned.
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4P - Valley of Death 2.rar
This is the new version, not sure if it is better but it may be.
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Re: Winter 2009 - Map Making Contest!

Post by Rigor » November 24th, 2009, 11:11 pm

some said its overrated when u get drakes, are you going to do anything about that ?

in fact,i, as orcs, had not really enough gold to do anything (swarming) because units cost lots of gold in terms of upkeep. did u consider maybe adding another village in the back of the save keep ? i mean, you would have to extend the map in the "outside" direction for that because in the middle it would be just too much.

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Re: Winter 2009 - Map Making Contest!

Post by Drunken_Pirate » November 24th, 2009, 11:27 pm

The idea is definitely to have fewer units. I don't think more villages is a good idea.

I found as orcs you could have more than others because of the low cost of grunts and whelps. But with the small size of map rushing is a huge gamble, unless you have a right mismatch of recruits vs your enemy and you coordinate with your ally.

As for drakes, I do not think they do better than anyone else. The saurians will have a lot of terrain that they do well on, but 60d is not invincible. For the drakes themselves, they tend to rely on their speed and outmanouvering, it is hard for them to do so on this map, and from my experience a pinned down drake is a dead one. All it takes are a few piercers and the drakes day can be brought to an abrupt end, and also considering the price of the drake units, one or two early losses and you have nothing to cover your hero's retreat.

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Re: Winter 2009 - Map Making Contest!

Post by Rigor » November 25th, 2009, 12:16 am

nagi, your map is purest dope- i love it.

some people have said things about your map, mostly how you could balance it for certain fractions.

the replay is nothing extra, but i thought the CHATLOG might be of high importance for you.

keep up the good work and make a zip of that map so its easier to DL.
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Re: Winter 2009 - Map Making Contest!

Post by lancebramsay » November 25th, 2009, 6:04 am

Legend says there was once a fierce warrior that went by the name Ina'ar. An epic battle took place along the banks of a small river, countless soldiers were lost. Ina'ar was the last unit for his side, fighting ferociously he claimed many lives. Having shown much valor, the river was named Ina'ar in his honor.

This is a small sized 1v1 map. I have done quite a bit of testing and have worked out all flaws and/or balance issues. What I tend to find with small maps that after the initial clash of units, the losing side is then easily overwhelmed. With this map, even though it is small it is not a quick play. It takes strategy and key timing to defeat your opponent. Though inherently by nature of being small the map does not play for too long.

Rushing your opponent will not win you the match, in most cases it will be signing your death wish. The key is to slowly push forward and pick out your opponents weaknesses. The middle is a key strategic position on the map due in part that it allows you much flexibility in your attack. It allows you the option of either going north or south or directly at your opponent. You also have the decision of taking your king into battle; this can often make or break your success. In addition there are several choke points for the teams as well, mostly being around the starting castles. This allows for each team to defend itself and fight back. A very balanced map, there are no inherent race advantages as well as no advantage to being first.

The replay attached is a good example on how the map plays. Though statistically I was actually losing (kill to loss ratio) key placement of units and capitalization on my opponents weakness allowed me the victory.

[EDIT] I would also like to thank all those who helped me, this map would not be what it is without your input. The name was the final edit so those who helped me may not recognize the new one. I had originally named it Bolt after the lightning bolt looking river but decided it was not fitting for the map.


There is a new updated version of my map on page 7
2p - River of Ina'ar
2p - River of Ina'ar
Last edited by lancebramsay on November 30th, 2009, 3:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Winter 2009 - Map Making Contest!

Post by Doc Paterson » November 25th, 2009, 10:18 pm

lancebramsay wrote:I have done quite a bit of testing and have worked out all flaws and/or balance issues.
lancebramsay wrote:A very balanced map, there are no inherent race advantages as well as no advantage to being first.
Are you a newer player? Looking at this map, I'm certain that neither of the above are true.
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses.
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