The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

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Doc Paterson
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Re: The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Doc Paterson »

Okay, so, Gallifax.....

Most of the conversation in the log boils down to you saying that you don't like my anti-stalemate changes, and the others disagreeing and saying that the changes were necessary. You say it wasn't stalematish, they say it was stalematish, etc. etc. For the most part, Kolbur gave the responses that I would give.

I loved this:
Kolbur wrote: imo Onis comes close to what you want, I just recently had a stalemate there. :D
:lol2:

But as for this-
Gallifax wrote: We don't have any map now where one need to carefully organize one's attack and unit deployment.
:|

That seems like a silly statement to me, and I don't think any of the current top 1v1 players would agree with that. (Though I'd like to hear from any who do.)

As for the Undead issue, I do think that perhaps the P2 preflag (as Dauntless suggested) is unnecessary. Pushing parts of the primary forward keep back a hex or two might also be doable. Moving the villages back is probably not going to happen though.

Anyways- I'll be away for a few days, but may do some work on it shortly after that. I'm also starting to revert to my old line of thinking on HGBadlands, that UD and Orc rush there is still a bit too strong, and should have a TOD bump. If anyone wants to post arguments to the contrary, now is your chance. ;)
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tekelili
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Re: The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by tekelili »

I cant give you meaningfull feedback about tod bump on hgb, as I still feel myself quite newbi on 1v1 maps, but anyway just wanted to say HGB is currently imo best map among all 1v1 maps. I dont remeber saw never a stealemate game on that map, but i am defensive player and feel quite comfortable on HGB.

Still didnt played enougth games vs top players to know how strong they would hit me with orcs or ud, but just if can help in anything, I attach a replay of ud vs elves. My current opinion is ud has very low chances on this very match up.
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_semler_vs_teke.gz
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Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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Horus2
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Re: The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Horus2 »

I have to agree with tekelili, HGB is fine as is.

Concerning that:
1) lawful factions are notable for their mobility
2) chaotics have certain logistical issues
3) the map favors quick side-switch, speed and skirmisher units
makes me think tod bump won't be nice. To wreak some mild first-night havoc is essential for the further healthy gameplay-dynamics. Plus i'm an agressive player, still never felt like "woo, this grunt spam was undefendable, something have to be done".
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Re: The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Gallifax »

Doc what exactly is silly about that statement?

Sablestone, the old one was never stalematish for me . Took longer to organise an attack but in way more than 80 % I was the attacker and its nice to have at least 1 single map like it was. Onis is not comparable I said that too. 1 Less village does make a difference to me and its a lot more stalematish than sablestone on some matchups, simply too few villages ...And for me anyway that map can never be balanced with those sidevillages and drakes vs orcrush is another thing. Hamlets is neither stalematish anymore. Anyway if you like the map that way, fine, I wont play it anymore if it stays like it is now, so np for me.

Just liked how one had to organise unit deployment there to time with good tod. That was the interesting part, making it a unike map. It simply played differently than onis or hamlets. Cant put it better.

Ofc I agree we should not have many maps like that, but it was the only one left, with Hamlets changes. Imo


Agree on HGBL , a map I wont play anymore in its current state. Had to feel that undead can push too easy and hold too many villages vs Semler. You can watch replay if you havent yet.
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Quetzalcoatl
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Re: The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Quetzalcoatl »

As it comes to HGB: dont you think its very similar to old hornshark?

It has two exposed villages and you can take/threat third one round after taking control after them. It has different terrain and keep layout but I dont know if that this is a key point :hmm:.

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Doc Paterson
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Re: The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Doc Paterson »

Here's a Sablestone Delta update:
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csarmi
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Re: The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by csarmi »

How do you beat drakes on Cynsaun Battlefield?
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Re: The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Doc Paterson »

csarmi wrote:How do you beat drakes on Cynsaun Battlefield?
Some of the factional matchups on Cynsaun are currently a bit off, due to the size of the map, but that's not to say they aren't winnable. If you want specific advice, post a replay of you failing to beat Drakes.

You also may want to talk to Dauntless about it....I consider him to be the resident Cynsaun Battlefield strategic specialist. :)
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Re: The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Doc Paterson »

Hello, folks. I have a number of updates here for 1.9x. I didn't bother to make 1.8x versions of these yet, seeing as the conversions basically have to be done "manually," (looking at the 1.9x, making a change in the 1.8x, looking at the 1.9x again, etc.) due to the multitude of new terrain (mostly just new aliases, so nothing too dramatic) in use.

They are:


Hamlets - 2 villages moved "forward," one hex, for the final time. ;) Some other small terrain rearrangements as well.

Howling Ghost Badlands - A number of changes, mostly anti-cav in nature. The TOD bump that had been briefly in effect in 1.9x has also been reverted.

Sablestone Delta - Several changes, aimed at toning down chaotic (particularly P2) rushes. P2's pre-flag is gone, giving them one less unit on the early-game front lines. The primary forward keeps have also been cut down a bit, and there are also a few changes to the center, to reduce a rushing chaotic's ability to quickly threaten multiple villages. They'll still be able to threaten early (don't worry about that), but will have to be ever-so-slightly more particular about which side they're leaning towards.

Thousand Stings Garrison - As discussed in various locations, I'm going to try a normal starting TOD here, the theory being that the "slow-down-chaotic-rush" measures that have already been taken, terrain-wise, will be enough to tone things down, without going too far, and making chaotic rushes weak (as the TOD bump may have done).
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OctMapUpdates1.zip
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Kolbur
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Re: The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Kolbur »

1.9 only...
:cry:
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Doc Paterson
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Re: The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Doc Paterson »

Arg, here's another Hamlets for 1.9x. :P It fixes that missing P2 pre-flag bug. There are also a few small changes elsewhere.
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Re: The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Doc Paterson »

Okay, here's my attempt to consolidate all of these various 1.9x updates into one easy package.

This contains the newest 1.9x versions of Hamlets (map and config), Sablestone Delta (map and config), Howling Ghost Badlands (map and config), and Thousand Stings Garrison (config).
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OctoberUpdatesPrime1.zip
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csarmi
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Re: The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by csarmi »

Doc, I think it might be best if you included both the maps file and the cfg file for all maps updated (even the unchenged ones).
I've got a question: is it possible to install these maps as 'addon'? If so, how?
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Re: The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Gambit »

Releasing them as an add-on would be cool. Then the game would handle updating them.
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Doc Paterson
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Re: The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Doc Paterson »

csarmi wrote:Doc, I think it might be best if you included both the maps file and the cfg file for all maps updated (even the unchenged ones).
I've got a question: is it possible to install these maps as 'addon'? If so, how?
Hmm, why would I include an unchanged map in an "update?

I've always thought that it was easier to do it this way....All you have to do is dump the configs into the multiplayer scenarios folder, and the maps into the multiplayer maps folder, overwriting the old ones. I absolutely do not want the old ones to remain.

Though I don't know, is it more of a hassle for some people to use this thread?
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