Random Default Map (REMOVED)

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grrr
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Random Default Map (REMOVED)

Post by grrr »

UPDATE: This add-on has been replaced by the Wesnoth's Competitive Gaming Add-on and as such has been removed from the 1.8 add-on server.

This add-on allows players to start on a randomly chosen offical default map. It will also randomize the starting positions, in order to fight faction picking (and partially, this bug: http://gna.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=13243) in combination with a potential first-move-advantage of player 1 (P1 FMA).

If you want to help you can get the add-on from Wesnoth's UMC repo which is hosted at SourceForge.net (browse source).

The maps are organized in four 1v1 sets and three 2v2 sets, plus the fixed starting position sets.

1v1 sets
all, all (fix pos):
2p - Arcanclave Citadel (new!), 2p - Caves of the Basilisk, 2p - Den of Onis, 2p - Fallenstar Lake, 2p - Hamlets, 2p - Hornshark Island,
2p - Howling Ghost Badlands, 2p - Sablestone Delta, 2p - Silverhead Crossing, 2p - Sullas Ruins, 2p - The Freelands,
2p - Weldyn Channel;

skirmish, skirmish (fix pos):
2p - Caves of the Basilisk, 2p - Den of Onis, 2p - Hamlets, 2p - The Freelands, 2p - Weldyn Channel;

tourney, tourney (fix pos):
2p - Caves of the_Basilisk, 2p - Den of Onis, 2p - Fallenstar Lake, 2p - Hornshark Island, 2p - Howling Ghost Badlands,
2p - Sablestone - Delta, 2p - Silverhead Crossing, 2p - Sullas Ruins, 2p - The Freelands;

extra, extra (fix pos):
2p - Eye of Tath, 2p - Fast to Madness, 2p - The Badlands, 2p - Thalins Stronghold, 2p - Twin River,
2p - Unfolding Space.

(Yes, I killed ps7's Remote Isle for now - it's too symmetric and lacks rough terrain, IMHO)

2v2 sets
all, all (fix pos):
4p - Bluewater Province, 4p - Castle Hopping Isle, 4p - Clash, 4p - Hamlets, 4p - Isars Cross,
4p - Loris River, 4p - Moritouri, 4p - Path of Daggers, 4p - Underworld, 4p - Xanthe Chaos;

skirmish, skirmish (fix pos):
4p - Bluewater Province, 4p - Hamlets, 4p - Isars Cross, 4p - Moritouri, 4p - Underworld;

tourney, tourney (fix pos):
4p - Castle Hopping Isle, 4p - Clash, 4p - Loris River, 4p - Path of Daggers, 4p - Xanthe Chaos.

There is an issue with a pesky overwrite-replay message when advancing from the dummy scenario to the random map. Perhaps a patch is needed to disable saving empty (= zero turns) replays.

Current version on the add-on server:
* 0.9 (1.6)
* 0.9.1 (1.8)

Description of UMC maps
Attachments
2p_UMC_previews.png
Last edited by grrr on April 25th, 2010, 12:30 am, edited 31 times in total.

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Aethaeryn
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Aethaeryn »

grrr wrote:So there is that Random Default Map Chooser on the add-on server now, which currently only chooses among 1v1 default maps. Since there are 11 of them you play each map with a 9% chance. Given that many ladder player reported problems with HGB (it still has a significant FMA) one could perhaps exclude it from the random selection? What I imagine is that for +1800 players it should be mandatory to use the RDMC add-on for all their ladder games in order to reduce exploitive map choosing. But hey - it is not up to me to make up the ladder rules =)
It looks like a fun add-on, it might get me to play the default maps more often.
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grrr
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Re: random map selection split from "Ladder Site Online..."

Post by grrr »

The Random Default Map add-on now includes some sets of 2v2 maps to choose from.
It is here where the replace_map hack starts to show its shortcoming as you cannot redefine 1221 to a 1212 turn order during a (prestart) event, as side settings are immutable (sigh ... ).

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Quetzalcoatl
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Re: random map selection split from "Ladder Site Online..."

Post by Quetzalcoatl »

Hi :)

I wanted to say this once more: this addon is awesome :)
I attach map proposal for testing category. Consider this one as done but... who knows ;)
Attachments
2p_The_Badlands.cfg
(733 Bytes) Downloaded 296 times
2p_The_Badlands.map
(16.74 KiB) Downloaded 244 times
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.

ps7
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Re: random map selection split from "Ladder Site Online..."

Post by ps7 »

Hi.
I interested in this addon , so here is sort of my opinion.

EASY: freelands, weldyn , basilisk , hamlet (most popular 3map + smallest map)
MEDIUM: fallenstar, onis(not so difficult to play and little hard to rush)
HARD: hornshark(most good rush map except HGB so this may be unbalanced map too)
silverhead(I like here and don't think unbalanced but really hard to play)
sullas(really need practice of initial recruit and initial move to play here)
TOURNEY: contains EASY, MEDIUM, HARD

I excluded HGB(unbalanced),sablestonedelta(really not popular),crysaunbattlefield(too huge).
I want feedback too whether hornshark is balanced or not ....

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Cackfiend
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Re: random map selection split from "Ladder Site Online..."

Post by Cackfiend »

been using this and its great

i encourage all ladder players to start using it :)
"There's no love in fear." - Maynard James Keenan

I'm the guy who's responsible for 40% Gliders in all hexes... I can now die a happy man. =D

grrr
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Re: random map selection split from "Ladder Site Online..."

Post by grrr »

I should note that the current map sets are meant as proposals only.

I'd like to encourate ladder players to come up with their own ideas on how to organize these map sets. For example I did not include The Freelands (TFL) in the tourney map set because *I* think it's played waaaaaay too often =)

The only hard requirement for any map set(s) proposal will be that each map set has to consist of at least 3 maps. We could also organize a public choice contest (forum polls) then, in the form of "Which maps should be in the EASY set?", and so on.

Then, ps7 already proposed to randomize the P1/P2 turn order (so that the host only has a 50% chance to become P1, instead of 100%). This is doable, but I want to know how others think about it.

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Cackfiend
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Re: random map selection split from "Ladder Site Online..."

Post by Cackfiend »

randomizing the P1/P2 turn order is a great idea but should probably be optional
"There's no love in fear." - Maynard James Keenan

I'm the guy who's responsible for 40% Gliders in all hexes... I can now die a happy man. =D

Dauntless
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Re: random map selection split from "Ladder Site Online..."

Post by Dauntless »

Hello Wesnothians,
Im glad there is the random map generator, as i think it makes the games more interesting, getting us to play more maps and excludes map exploits.
The same applies to the random pl1/2, which is a good idea imho as well.
Basically i would include all 1vs1 default maps aparft from badlands until it gets improved.
If anybody has any new maps to submit, it would be nice to get a higher variety.


P.S. evil people keep neglecting the marvels of Cynsaum. Me and cynsaum very sad.

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Doc Paterson
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Re: random map selection split from "Ladder Site Online..."

Post by Doc Paterson »

ps7 wrote:I excluded HGB(unbalanced)
Don't just say junk like this without backing it up. If you think it's unbalanced, prove it by sending me replays against good players that demonstrate the supposed problem.
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eyerouge
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Re: random map selection split from "Ladder Site Online..."

Post by eyerouge »

Excellent work grrr! I love it. :)

Just tried it out and seems to work nice. It's long over due and hopefully LoW admin will implement it into the rules, but, how can anyone check that your opponent that hosted really used it? ;) I think this addon will prove to do wonders for competitive play and for map makers as well, not to mention that it will force players to learn new maps and tactics, bringing more out of an already very good game.

I also like the idea of the other randomizing stuff you've suggested, would be really nice if they'll be implemented. As I'm no map expert I won't say much more than it sure sounds like it should be problem free and balanced, further adding to what I already wrote above.

Now, my main concern when it comes to enforcing or becoming dependent of anything that's beyond the game code it self as it originally ships: Would you, grrr, make sure this addon was maintained so it works well with future releases of Wesnoth? Or can it become a part of the mainline code, as seems appropriate it should be in some form if it works as intended.

I don't know the specifics code/script wise, but I imagine many addons break or need some work every now and then when a new version of Wesnoth is released. Unfortunately the superbly productive Wesnoth addon community many times let addons fade and die since their author has moved along or away from Wesnoth and/or the addon in question.

I'm not saying you are not committed or that you can't be trusted, just stating the obvious - that if the ladder is supposed to use something it would rely on or even try to enforce (which I think it should if it could) then it would need to be able to count on the addon being fixed whenever that was needed. Btw, this goes for any addon, not just this one, but let's focus on the topic at hand.

grrr
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Re: random map selection split from "Ladder Site Online..."

Post by grrr »

eyerouge wrote:Now, my main concern when it comes to enforcing or becoming dependent of anything that's beyond the game code it self as it originally ships: Would you, grrr, make sure this addon was maintained so it works well with future releases of Wesnoth?
...
I imagine many addons break or need some work every now and then when a new version of Wesnoth is released. Unfortunately the superbly productive Wesnoth addon community many times let addons fade and die since their author has moved along or away from Wesnoth and/or the addon in question.
...
Just stating the obvious - that if the ladder is supposed to use something it would rely on or even try to enforce (which I think it should if it could) then it would need to be able to count on the addon being fixed whenever that was needed. Btw, this goes for any addon, not just this one, but let's focus on the topic at hand.
You raise valid points, and yes, it can and will happen that maintainers walk away. (I am not going to exclude myself from that, I've taken wesbreaks, and will continue to do so.)
There is only one precautionary step I am aware of (let's forget becoming mainline for now, that is a long process): using the UMC repos while sharing access to this add-on to >1 people (that is, sharing the passphrase). This enables core developers to quickly fix bugs or update maps. Even then, the add-on needs a forum thread at least, say as an activity log. This all doesn't prevent the worst case, it only makes it less likely.

Another issue I have is that this add-on introduces some new possibilites to cheat. For that I need to figure out how I can sync certain events.

grrr
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Re: Random Default Map: Now with random starting position!

Post by grrr »

OK, I transformed the add-on into a MP campaign now, which is cleaner regarding scenario settings and also was needed for random start pos.
Because this is quite a bit of dull macro work I excluded the 2v2 maps from the 0.5 version for now. I'll include then again, no worries =)

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Re: Random Default Map: Now with random starting position!

Post by Blarumyrran »

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grrr
Posts: 252
Joined: May 25th, 2007, 9:49 pm

Re: Random Default Map: Now with random starting position!

Post by grrr »

Thanks a lot =) I should have asked earlier!

Edit: Included in add-on and also fixed the village income from 1 to 2. Somehow scenario defaults don't work for MP campaigns? (Got it now: MP campaign scenario defaults are the same as in SP scenarios, not as in MP scenarios, right?)

Edit2: Fixed XP to 70% (probably means the XP slider + village gold settings get overriden >=)).

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