Conquest 1.0 - Now on the 1.6 Add-on Server

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

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rupper
Posts: 4
Joined: December 29th, 2009, 8:10 pm

Re: Conquest 1.0 - Now on the 1.6 Add-on Server

Post by rupper »

What about Italy? No one is interested on Italy normally, cos the reward is too low (3 gold, 4 cities) and it's a bit like germany, it gets smashed by opposing east and west forces.

I think it should be modified to recover importance in the map. Giving it 4 gold bonus, for example (even 5).

We could make this modification in a test file and try the map, maybe it's worth it.
Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: Conquest 1.0 - Now on the 1.6 Add-on Server

Post by Mabuse »

heres a 1.16_fix that fixes the bug in wesnoth map

wesnoth bonus was not given, thx for report
Attachments
conquest_pack116_fix.rar
(15.37 KiB) Downloaded 259 times
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
europe_emperor
Posts: 8
Joined: December 30th, 2009, 2:18 pm

Re: Conquest 1.0 - Now on the 1.6 Add-on Server

Post by europe_emperor »

rupper wrote:What about Italy? No one is interested on Italy normally, cos the reward is too low (3 gold, 4 cities) and it's a bit like germany, it gets smashed by opposing east and west forces.


I like your idea of giving Italy +4/5 but i think then the bonus of Poland has to get increased too.

Poland is more important then Italy, and harder to keep. Poland is like a living shield for russia/ukraine/blakans or germany. And Poland always get smashed if east wants to attack or if west wants.
ViK
Posts: 18
Joined: December 23rd, 2009, 3:54 am

Re: Conquest 1.0 - Now on the 1.6 Add-on Server

Post by ViK »

europe_emperor wrote:
rupper wrote:What about Italy? No one is interested on Italy normally, cos the reward is too low (3 gold, 4 cities) and it's a bit like germany, it gets smashed by opposing east and west forces.


I like your idea of giving Italy +4/5 but i think then the bonus of Poland has to get increased too.

Poland is more important then Italy, and harder to keep. Poland is like a living shield for russia/ukraine/blakans or germany. And Poland always get smashed if east wants to attack or if west wants.
True about Poland. Italy, I think is fine in 3. though, 4 may help. Also, Importance of italy and sweden increase with boats. Italy can launch naval attacks on spain and france, while sweden can do it on russia and UK.
rupper
Posts: 4
Joined: December 29th, 2009, 8:10 pm

Re: Conquest 1.0 - Now on the 1.6 Add-on Server

Post by rupper »

Italy could be efficient in naval attacks only from Palermo, since Rome is west-oriented.

But Palermo is a very unoperative island... difficult to defend, and to operate as naval base while we have the boarding bug.
Arty
Posts: 3
Joined: December 31st, 2009, 3:04 am

Re: Conquest 1.0 - Now on the 1.6 Add-on Server

Post by Arty »

rupper wrote:Italy could be efficient in naval attacks only from Palermo, since Rome is west-oriented.

But Palermo is a very unoperative island... difficult to defend, and to operate as naval base while we have the boarding bug.
To make Italy effective as a naval base, it at least has to be a +4 for boarding.

And Italy has a city on its east coast as well.
Lmao
Posts: 20
Joined: December 23rd, 2009, 7:47 am

Re: Conquest 1.0 - Now on the 1.6 Add-on Server

Post by Lmao »

rupper wrote:Italy could be efficient in naval attacks only from Palermo, since Rome is west-oriented.

But Palermo is a very unoperative island... difficult to defend, and to operate as naval base while we have the boarding bug.
Palermo is a very very good naval base it is easy to defend cuz of the ships and the boarding bug is very easy to avoid if you know what causes it, move a unit onto a city then boarding, your unit cannot have taken any moves while boarding something with the undos screws it up and like Arty said there is also Bari in Italy which can hit balkans in one turn.
rupper
Posts: 4
Joined: December 29th, 2009, 8:10 pm

Re: Conquest 1.0 - Now on the 1.6 Add-on Server

Post by rupper »

Yes, Bari is good for the east too, i forgot about it... but palermo still doesn't look like a very flexible place to me (and the bug has nothing to do with that; it's just difficult to defend because you need 2 or 3 turns to ge there from mainland).
Lmao
Posts: 20
Joined: December 23rd, 2009, 7:47 am

Re: Conquest 1.0 - Now on the 1.6 Add-on Server

Post by Lmao »

rupper wrote:Yes, Bari is good for the east too, i forgot about it... but palermo still doesn't look like a very flexible place to me (and the bug has nothing to do with that; it's just difficult to defend because you need 2 or 3 turns to ge there from mainland).
lol how are u gonna say the bug has nothing to do w/ that CIB and I tested it out. If your gonna disprove it you need to give a reason why, else you have no idea what you are talking about.
rupper
Posts: 4
Joined: December 29th, 2009, 8:10 pm

Re: Conquest 1.0 - Now on the 1.6 Add-on Server

Post by rupper »

Well, I don't know why the boarding bug would be positive for Palermo as naval base. In fact it forces you to have the island empty, to be able to board any unit, since you can't have any unit next to Palermo or the boarding will crash... and you can't have units in Palermo or you won't be able to board. Hou could this be positive for Palermo?
Lmao
Posts: 20
Joined: December 23rd, 2009, 7:47 am

Re: Conquest 1.0 - Now on the 1.6 Add-on Server

Post by Lmao »

rupper wrote:Well, I don't know why the boarding bug would be positive for Palermo as naval base. In fact it forces you to have the island empty, to be able to board any unit, since you can't have any unit next to Palermo or the boarding will crash... and you can't have units in Palermo or you won't be able to board. Hou could this be positive for Palermo?
i didnt say it was a positive. i just told you how the boarding cause a bug, and you told me that, that wasnt what caused it.
chex
Posts: 3
Joined: October 9th, 2007, 10:43 pm

Re: Conquest 1.0 - Now on the 1.6 Add-on Server

Post by chex »

On the Wesnoth map I believe Wesnoth needs a couple more points of entry to make it balanced. Maybe a crossing to the south east and one NE towards the swamp. Giving it a 10g bonus with 2 easily defended openings is too much.
Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: Conquest 1.0 - Now on the 1.6 Add-on Server

Post by Mabuse »

i thought about putting a city far away in the bitter swamps, or perhaps two, where you may recruit undead units. most likely it will be just one city without any territory bonus

these would include ghosts, which may fly and thus be able to attack wesnoth cities


another solution would be to give fort tahn or the eastmark a port to enable them to launch invasion by sea (river)


that wesnoth cannot be so easily invaded is intended though
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: Conquest 1.0 - Now on the 1.6 Add-on Server

Post by Mabuse »

ok, i made some slight changes for the wesnoth map.

1.)
2 cities were added in the far southeast. these form a new region: bitter swamps .. for a bonus of 1 gold. lowest bonus, because it is difficult to access and easy to defend

you can recruit undead here. undead inf have base stats of dwarves. so they are stronger, but also cost more. their cav is ghost, which has a movment of 8, can fly (like the gryphon), has 12-6 attack, cost 6, has 50 HP ... and has DRAIN. mathematically they are as strong as a gryphon therfore the cost of 6 gold (and they can fly). their healing is better than the healing of gryphons (they have only 50 base HP, and thus 8 HP per turn has more impact), so i made them slower.

SUBMERGE was removed from the skeletons btw

this is an attack option on wesnoth for the eastern regions.


gryphon vs. ghost:
-------------------
gryphon 100HP, 12-6 blade, 50% def, 0% blade, 6 gold
ghost 50HP, 12-6 blade, 50% def, 0% blade, drain, 6 gold

ghost attacks for 12x6x0.5 (=36) damage per round, enemy damage is reduced by 18 (since it drains half of the damage). 36 damage will kill a gryphon in 100/36 (=2.77) Rounds

gryphon attack for 12x6x0.5 -18(ghost drain) (=18) damage per round.
18 damage will kill a ghost in 50/18 (=2.77) Rounds

so they are mathematically equal in comparison. so they have same cost.
gryphons have better movement though (ghosts have only 8 and cannot moeve quickly over water), but ghost can heal better since they only need to restore half of their HP

to use ghost at its max its best to use it versus low def targets, with bad luck they may go down pretty quickly, with good luck they can kill several units without a much damage



2.)
fort tahn is now a port, so it may also lauch naval attacks on wesnoth, another south attack option

3.)
I made an additional water crossing in front of shylas (glyns forest), its not far away from ford abez, but "dread swamps" can much better access it. so heres a northeast attack option



i think now wesnoth can be better threatened, while it is still defendable
Attachments
conquestpack_117.rar
(15.73 KiB) Downloaded 245 times
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
europe_emperor
Posts: 8
Joined: December 30th, 2009, 2:18 pm

Re: Conquest 1.0 - Now on the 1.6 Add-on Server

Post by europe_emperor »

Good changes :D Wesnoth is/was very easy to defend, if no gryphons come.

Undead sounds fun :) but i actually think ghost is (a little) overpowered.
A gryphs can't kill 10 infantry in a row while a ghost could (with luck), drain is a little to strong if it has 12-6. it would mean +18 HP vs infantry.
An infantry has to hit 3 times to not make the ghost profit of the attack. (-2 is not a lose if you kill an infantry so i don't count 2 hits).
There isnt a big chance that happens.
Ghost can attack 6 times in round while infantry only got 2, both with 50%
so if the infantry hits once, and there is a big chance that happens, the ghost would still make a profit of +8.
vs elite infantry it would mean +32 hp, thats almost enough too heal him full, (i did not really calculate the damage E I would give.

Not that so many ghosts will go kill 10 infantry at a game, but it is just for example,
Too make my long Ghost vs Infantry story short, I think drain is overpowered because it could kill many units in a row.

IF my ghost is nearly death, i would go attack group of infantry, they could only kill my iwith luck and i will kill many and heal, till stronger units come

i would like to see some E I vs ghosts fights and Gryph vs ghost fights too see if 50 hp is to much, or too less
Last edited by europe_emperor on January 4th, 2010, 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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