MP coop campaign: World Conquest

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JW
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Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by JW » March 18th, 2009, 5:40 pm

Ken_Oh wrote:Eh, I don't know the campaign well enough to get into all the details. However, I'm looking now and, to keep within my example, I'm not sure simply adding fearless to Thief makes it an equivalent hero to a Drake Burner. Of course the Thief can do things that the Burner can't, but the things that the Burner can do that the Thief can't are much better. The Burner is essentially an archer but only during night time will the Thief, with fearless, do better non-backstab melee damage.

It just doesn't seem worth it to recruit a hero that is anything but a high-cost unit.
Well, the thief will eventually level to get skirmish and poison. Burners are awesome heroes, but backstab is kinda the sole purpose of thieves. If you're not backstabbing with them then they're not being used right.

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Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by Ken_Oh » March 18th, 2009, 6:22 pm

JW wrote:
Ken_Oh wrote:Eh, I don't know the campaign well enough to get into all the details. However, I'm looking now and, to keep within my example, I'm not sure simply adding fearless to Thief makes it an equivalent hero to a Drake Burner. Of course the Thief can do things that the Burner can't, but the things that the Burner can do that the Thief can't are much better. The Burner is essentially an archer but only during night time will the Thief, with fearless, do better non-backstab melee damage.

It just doesn't seem worth it to recruit a hero that is anything but a high-cost unit.
Well, the thief will eventually level to get skirmish and poison. Burners are awesome heroes, but backstab is kinda the sole purpose of thieves. If you're not backstabbing with them then they're not being used right.
Of course, of course, but a backstabbing Thief is only going to do something like 6 more points of damage than a Burner's fire will do any time. Then there's the fact that it's usually safer to attack ranged and backstabbing often exposes the unit, not to even mention resistances, defense, movement type, HP, etc.

I mean, if anyone wants to argue that a Thief is overall just about as useful as a Burner, I think that person should suggest some pricing changes in the MP forum.

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Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by JW » March 18th, 2009, 6:35 pm

Ken_Oh wrote:Of course, of course, but a backstabbing Thief is only going to do something like 6 more points of damage than a Burner's fire will do any time. Then there's the fact that it's usually safer to attack ranged and backstabbing often exposes the unit, not to even mention resistances, defense, movement type, HP, etc.

I mean, if anyone wants to argue that a Thief is overall just about as useful as a Burner, I think that person should suggest some pricing changes in the MP forum.
I'm not arging that the thief and burner are of the same usefulness, clearly they aren't. One thing that should be considered though is the utility of the unit - it's uniqueness that it brings. Example: if I'm a drake player and I have access to rebels and loyalists (not sure if that's a possible combo), then the thief will bring some utility that I would otherwise not be able to get from recruits.

I'm not saying I would pick him (I already stated I generally don't pick heroes to begin with), but there is a consideration there. Now, the uniqueness the thief or other units (like the footpad, goblin, etc) bring is perhaps too minimal to be realistically considered for selection, but I'm not putting myself into that conversation (yet).

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TL
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Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by TL » March 18th, 2009, 9:20 pm

Soliton wrote:See the attached savegame. I get +44 gold per turn income and an early finish bonus of 23 gold per turn.
The end-of-scenario popup is misleading. To the best of my knowledge there is no way to change the early finish bonus; the game gives each player a bonus per turn equal to number of villages + base income. Since this obviously defeats the purpose of an early finish bonus in scenarios where village income is higher than 1, the campaign dumps a lump sum bonus on each player to make up the difference. The actual gold you end up with is the same either way (just checked with your save, although as noted I'm still a version behind; will go download latest version and see if anything funky is happening there).
Ken_Oh wrote:Of course, of course, but a backstabbing Thief is only going to do something like 6 more points of damage than a Burner's fire will do any time.
Strong/fearless thief (such as the one in question) does more damage with its backstab during day than the burner's ranged attack (only slightly, but still). During night it's almost double damage. In general terms I'd probably still give the nod to the burner, simply due to the risk inherent in the thief: a thief is vulnerable to randomly getting killed by a run of lucky hits pretty much any time. My preference with hero picks is strongly colored by what they offer in comparison to my standard troops though, with particular emphasis on support abilities. But I tend to strongly prefer new recruits/training to begin with, so I am probably not the best judge as I am unlikely to voluntarily pick either one.

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Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by Soliton » March 18th, 2009, 10:21 pm

TL wrote:
Soliton wrote:See the attached savegame. I get +44 gold per turn income and an early finish bonus of 23 gold per turn.
The end-of-scenario popup is misleading. To the best of my knowledge there is no way to change the early finish bonus; the game gives each player a bonus per turn equal to number of villages + base income. Since this obviously defeats the purpose of an early finish bonus in scenarios where village income is higher than 1, the campaign dumps a lump sum bonus on each player to make up the difference. The actual gold you end up with is the same either way (just checked with your save, although as noted I'm still a version behind; will go download latest version and see if anything funky is happening there).
Ok, no need then. I was only checking the end-of-scenario dialog and it's not new.
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Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by MrBeans » March 19th, 2009, 1:49 am

When my friends and I play this, some error always shows up on level 2. The first time we tried, we got an error that kept prompting us to save the game, something to do with a bug or because we changed the settings. The second time around, we left the settings as is, but when we got to the second level, we got an error that said "unknown unit" and it d/ced us. I thought something was weird about that when, on the hero recruitment page, there were units with no pictures attached to them.

So, any idea what's up or how to get around these bugs?

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TL
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Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by TL » March 19th, 2009, 3:45 am

If you're playing on the 1.4 stable branch, note that there are two versions of the campaign, one of which is just default era and the other of which uses a custom era (auxiliary era). It sounds like you're trying to play that one without the era installed.

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Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by jb » March 20th, 2009, 4:31 pm

Well, we were finally able to win all six maps. Played on the current stable version with Noy, Wintermute, and myself.

Just wanted to say again how fun it was, and we get to do it again on the Dev version now.

:)
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Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by Boucman » March 20th, 2009, 4:42 pm

hmm

the way things are going, you're going to play it on the stable version again...

it's just not gonna be the same stable version :P
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Pagan
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Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by Pagan » March 24th, 2009, 9:25 pm

Hey there.
First of all i'd like to thanks TL for really awesome MP campaigns with incredible replayability etc =)
Now some feedback about latest version (on 1.6 obviously). Played there 3 scenarious on hardest difficulty and should admit that campaign became significatly easier. I saw following reasons:
1) many heroic units. not so much a deal, but helps on start
2) Ai in 1.6 looks kinda dumber (World Conquest-wise): now it is pretty passive. so I had situation when getting between 2 ais in 3rd scenario (they were pretty close) resulted in no disturbance -- they simply waited whne ill be ready to come and kill them, hugging around leaders.

But, most important

3) It looks like ai now recruits much, much less high lvl units now. saying if we return to that 3rd scenario 1st ai had 1 3rd level nad 2 2nd, 2nd had 4 2nd levels and 3rd had 1 3rd and 5 2nd (didnt help much tho). It makes things kinda much more plain. Yes, i know that i can increase difficulty drastically by playing it with 2 players or even solely (i even accomplished 1st 2 scenarious this way and it was really hard), but it is not a solution for MP campaign =). So, many difficulty levels is good, but please, keep it competitive =) .

1 more time thank you for your work, cya :)

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TL
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Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by TL » March 24th, 2009, 10:25 pm

Hrm, those enemy level numbers sound a bit buggy. You were playing with all 3 player slots active?

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Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by Pagan » March 24th, 2009, 11:54 pm

Yes, i played with Mythological and paris.

There is a bug in recruitment.cfg. Check of whether unit has any possible advancements is broken
Last edited by Pagan on March 28th, 2009, 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

csarmi
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Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by csarmi » March 25th, 2009, 8:10 am

Where can I download it? I mean except for the add-on server which I can't reach. A direct download link would be nice.

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Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by Wintermute » March 25th, 2009, 1:38 pm

Google is my friend.
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Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by csarmi » March 26th, 2009, 8:31 am

Cool, that's what I was looking for.
I tried searching with map name (no luck), then I remembered I might have seen some directory linked on the wiki, but I failed to find it then, so I gave up and posted, and afterwards I had to continue my classes :-)

Tx for the help.

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