MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
User avatar
TL
Posts: 511
Joined: March 3rd, 2007, 3:02 am

MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by TL » January 12th, 2009, 7:42 am

I just threw together a basic MP campaign of the plain straight-up fighting variety, comprising 6 scenarios against increasing numbers of enemies on larger and larger island-continents. Much is randomized, including the recruits you start with (you get more recruits available from scenario to scenario, also random), the terrain (it uses a modified version of the standard map generator), the enemies you face, and also a little bit of random NPC/item/bonus generation too. It supports from 1-3 players and scales the AI forces appropriately (although at present it scales proportionately, which is probably a disadvantage for having more players since you'll be more spread out but the AI won't.) Only minimal playtesting has been done, so difficulty is probably somewhere between "really freakin' hard" and "OMGWTF."

Unfortunately MP campaigns and the map generator don't seem to mix. It looks like at present the only way to get it to work online is to save and reload each scenario after the advancing; otherwise you will get very badly out of sync. (The first scenario doesn't seem to have any out of sync problems anymore, and you can play offline without problems.)

User avatar
Ken_Oh
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2176
Joined: February 6th, 2006, 4:03 am
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA

Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by Ken_Oh » January 12th, 2009, 11:34 am

I wonder if that problem is the same we've been having with Wesband, where alterations to the map are seen only by the first player.

EDIT: Tested and it doesn't look exactly like Wesband's problem, but it might be related.

User avatar
TL
Posts: 511
Joined: March 3rd, 2007, 3:02 am

Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by TL » January 12th, 2009, 6:23 pm

The Wesband problem sounds like it is probably the WML reordering bug. It's possible that the problem I'm having now is caused by the same thing, but I'm not sure how sensitive [generator] actually is to tag placement; when doing a live test last night we ended up with no less than three different versions of the map (which itself is unusual, as the WML reordering seems to be consistent across different observers), and although I could see maybe some of the generator tweaks getting shifted around the entire topography of the map seemed to be different (plus everyone's rand calls seem to have been different).

User avatar
Ken_Oh
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2176
Joined: February 6th, 2006, 4:03 am
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA

Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by Ken_Oh » January 12th, 2009, 6:50 pm

Interesting. I never knew about this.

User avatar
TL
Posts: 511
Joined: March 3rd, 2007, 3:02 am

Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by TL » January 22nd, 2009, 8:20 am

I put a new version on add-ons. Now in addition to the random bonuses that appear on each level, each player can pick two bonuses of their choice (within certain partially randomized constraints) at the start of each scenario. Also, if you use Auxiliary Era v0.12 or higher you can get access to new units as well.

Map gen still causes everything to go OOS when advancing scenarios (saving + loading still works to get everyone on the same page). Other than that bugs seem to be mostly quashed for now.

User avatar
jb
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 490
Joined: February 17th, 2006, 6:26 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by jb » January 22nd, 2009, 6:53 pm

I had a lot of fun with this format. I recommend it to everyone interested in mp campaigns.


<Official jb Seal of Approval>
My MP campaigns
Gobowars
The Altaz Mariners - with Bob the Mighty

User avatar
Wintermute
Inactive Developer
Posts: 840
Joined: March 23rd, 2006, 10:28 pm
Location: On IRC as "happygrue" at: #wesnoth-mp

Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by Wintermute » January 22nd, 2009, 7:19 pm

jb wrote:<Official jb Seal of Approval>
You sure put a lot of effort into that seal! It looks awesome. :wink:
"I just started playing this game a few days ago, and I already see some balance issues."

User avatar
Ken_Oh
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2176
Joined: February 6th, 2006, 4:03 am
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA

Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by Ken_Oh » January 22nd, 2009, 7:29 pm

Not sure if you noticed, but the first recruit doesn't benefit from training.

Noy
Inactive Developer
Posts: 1321
Joined: March 13th, 2005, 3:59 pm

Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by Noy » January 23rd, 2009, 6:32 am

Um... I have a suggestion.

Can we turn the Anti-Noy4 settings down a bit? As much as he does like a challenge... its a bit much with receiving a loyal strong Shaman and a Quick-Loy Theif as his bonus units, as well as having the lvl2 spawning UD 10 hexes from my keep at beginning at morning, while the discoverable gift lays three hexes on the other side of the computer. Partlicularly when jb gets a burner, ulf, a discoverable hex three hexes away and an abandonded keep nearby his base.

I'm sure Noy4 would appreciate it if his game features a very, very difficult challenge, not a nearly superhuman one which he's been receiving.

KTHXBYE
I suspect having one foot in the past is the best way to understand the present.

Don Hewitt.

User avatar
Wintermute
Inactive Developer
Posts: 840
Joined: March 23rd, 2006, 10:28 pm
Location: On IRC as "happygrue" at: #wesnoth-mp

Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by Wintermute » January 23rd, 2009, 2:35 pm

TL: Good work! This shows much promise. It seems that the WML reordering bug you mentioned has been fixed in the dev branch. Any chance you could test this out on the dev side? If all the bugs get squashed, this has mainline potential (hopefully the first of many mp campaigns).

One thought would be to add several difficulty options (even just adjusting the gold the AI(s) get a bit)
Noy wrote:Can we turn the Anti-Noy4 settings down a bit? KTHXBYE
Hey man, don't ask the artist to sacrifice his integrity... I'm sure he worked hard on those custom settings.
"I just started playing this game a few days ago, and I already see some balance issues."

User avatar
Ken_Oh
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2176
Joined: February 6th, 2006, 4:03 am
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA

Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by Ken_Oh » January 23rd, 2009, 4:12 pm

Wintermute wrote:It seems that the WML reordering bug you mentioned has been fixed in the dev branch. Any chance you could test this out on the dev side?
I just tried in dev and World Conquest is still broken. The reordering bug is fixed (Wesband works now), but it looks like the reordering bug is different from the map generator one.

User avatar
jb
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 490
Joined: February 17th, 2006, 6:26 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by jb » January 23rd, 2009, 5:39 pm

Wintermute
If all the bugs get squashed, this has mainline potential (hopefully the first of many mp campaigns).
Yes, I actually agree. The simplicity of the gameplay, combined with excellent random-map-generator tweaks. and infinite replay value are all strong qualities.

This would be the first candidate for working MP campaign...they key word is working. Until all the bugs are squashed, it can't be mainlined.

A lot of experts could be really helpful if they were inspired enough to take a look.
My MP campaigns
Gobowars
The Altaz Mariners - with Bob the Mighty

User avatar
TL
Posts: 511
Joined: March 3rd, 2007, 3:02 am

Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by TL » January 23rd, 2009, 6:23 pm

The map generator bug seems to be a problem with the map generator itself; I've tried a test campaign that just used the map generator, no fancy WML events (and absolutely no other random calls) and it still went out of sync when advancing scenarios. Maybe there's some way to rig it to work, I don't know; there's not a lot of documentation on how to use the map generator in an MP scenario, let alone an MP campaign.

Boucman
Inactive Developer
Posts: 2119
Joined: March 31st, 2004, 1:04 pm

Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by Boucman » January 23rd, 2009, 6:30 pm

TL, if you have a simple way to reproduce, please post a bug (not sure who/when it will be dealt with though)
Fight key loggers: write some perl using vim

User avatar
Des
Posts: 116
Joined: November 7th, 2007, 7:58 am
Contact:

Re: MP coop campaign: World Conquest

Post by Des » January 26th, 2009, 9:17 pm

This is the first multiplayer campaign I've played, but I like what I see. The randomness makes it fun and interesting.

I noticed something a little odd though:

Among the options in the beginning, a player can choose between receiving a "hero unit" and 60 gold (among others).

I don't know about you, but taking the 60 gold seems to always be the best choice. Unless I'm missing something, the "hero unit" is just a single level 1 unit of your choosing. However, depending on what faction you're playing, 60 gold can translate to 3-5 level 1 units.

Why would anyone take the "hero" unit?
Redrock Gulch (Winter 2009 Map Contest Submission)

To rely on rustics and not prepare is the greatest of crimes; to be prepared beforehand for any contingency is the greatest of Virtues. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Post Reply