Multiplayer - Revive Heros - Open Keeps - Change Leader

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

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Johs
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Multiplayer - Revive Heros - Open Keeps - Change Leader

Post by Johs »

I love the concept of Wesnoth, and I'm a huge turn based strategy buff, and Wesnoth is amazing. HOWEVER, i immediately wonder if theres any way to:

1 - Allow hero units to be revived for some gold cost. Say 30 or 50 or some map setting, so you can use your initial leader without dramatic fear that he might die. If he 'does' die, pay the gold and revive him.

2 - Disable the standard 'your hero must be in the keep' requirement. Simply turn it off, allowing players to make any troops they want, or possibly make troops spawn in hex's next to the hero (even though I dont like this really). So that the game is much more of a 'normal' turn based multiplayer game, and less the peculiarly angled game Wesnoth is.

3 - Allow you to change ANY unit in your keep INTO your leader? This would solve both of the top 2 problems. If this was possible, you could war with your lead unit, and at any time get 'any' unit to your keep, make him the leader, and recruit more solders.

Obviously if any of these solutions existed, the game settings for beating a map would have to become annihilation instead of 'kill general' but frankly, 2v2 is the cream of the crop. And we start with powerful L2 or L3 heros which we WANT TO USE, and when they die in a heated battle, the battle simply ends for that player, and its absolutely anti-climatic and ruins the fight to the death feel of most turn based strategy games.


Please tell me straight up if these things are simply not possible with the engine, or if these would be great options that could be possible.
Jozrael
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Re: Multiplayer - Revive Heros - Open Keeps - Change Leader

Post by Jozrael »

Not gonna lie, 1 sounds fantastically interesting for a UMC game. Kinda like WC3 or Chain of Command in StarCraft.

2: Terrible idea IMO. If you need this functionality in a Wesnoth match, add in more keeps.

3: Not a good idea either, IMO. You're trying to made leaders useless. Giving a stiff penalty to 'reincarnation' sounds like a fun plan (letting you risk a bit more while foraying with your leader...and if you accumulate enough gold out there, possibly even the better strategy!) but these other two...NFL.
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zookeeper
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Re: Multiplayer - Revive Heros - Open Keeps - Change Leader

Post by zookeeper »

Sure, 1 and 3 are entirely possible to do in custom scenarios, campaigns or eras.
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Quietus
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Re: Multiplayer - Revive Heros - Open Keeps - Change Leader

Post by Quietus »

Jozrael wrote:Not gonna lie, 1 sounds fantastically interesting for a UMC game. Kinda like WC3 or Chain of Command in StarCraft.
Hmm i was thinking more along the lines of HOMM, where you could re-recruit your leader from a tavern. This is actually a pretty neat idea for UMC. Though i would also incur an EXP penaulty on the unit (say back to 0?). The EXP has been lost due to lack of practise whilst recovering from his/her wounds.
Jozrael
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Re: Multiplayer - Revive Heros - Open Keeps - Change Leader

Post by Jozrael »

I think it'd be more believable just to reincarnate them through white magic xD. How'd they sneak out past enemy lines :p
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A Guy
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Re: Multiplayer - Revive Heros - Open Keeps - Change Leader

Post by A Guy »

You can put this in a scenario for 1:

Code: Select all

[event]
    name=recruit
    first_time_only=no
    [filter]
        type=Almighty Hero
    [/filter]
    [role]
        type=Almighty Hero
        role=hero_$side_number
    [/role]
    [disallow_recruit]
        side=$side_number
        type=Almighty Hero
    [/disallow_recruit]
[/event]

[event]
    name=die
    first_time_only=no
    [filter]
        role=Almighty Hero
    [/filter]
    [store_unit]
        [filter]
            x,y=$x1,$y1
        [/filter]
        variable=hero_$side_number
    [/store_unit]
    [set_menu_item]
        description= _ "Revive your dead hero (<insert cost here> gold)
        [show_if]
            [not]
                [have_unit]
                    side=$side_number
                    type=Almighty Hero
                [/have_unit]
            [not]
        [/show_if]
        [command]
            [store_gold]
                side=$side_number
                variable=gold
            [/store_gold]
            [if]
                [variable]
                    name=gold
                    greater_than_equal_to=<insert cost here>
                [/variable]
                [then]
                    [set_variable]
                        name=hero_$side_number|.x
                        value=<insert x-coord here>
                    [/set_variable]
                    [set_variable]
                        name=hero_$side_number|.y
                        value=<insert y-coord here>
                    [/set_variable]
                    [unstore_unit]
                        variable=hero_$side_number
                        find_vacant=yes
                    [/unstore_unit]
                    [object]
                         [filter]
                              x,y=$hero_|$side_number|.x,$hero_|$side_number|.y
                         [/filter]
                         [effect]
                              apply_to=hitpoints
                              heal_full=yes
                         [/effect]
                     [/object]
                 [/then]
             [/if]
         [/command]
     [/set_menu_item]
[/event]
At least that's what I think will be necessary.
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Johs
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Re: Multiplayer - Revive Heros - Open Keeps - Change Leader

Post by Johs »

Jozrael wrote: 3: Not a good idea either, IMO. You're trying to made leaders useless. Giving a stiff penalty to 'reincarnation' sounds like a fun plan (letting you risk a bit more while foraying with your leader...and if you accumulate enough gold out there, possibly even the better strategy!) but these other two...NFL.
Thats EXACTLY what I'm saying. I want my hero to be a 'hero'. Hes higher level, he kicks ass, I USE him. Hes not the crutch my entire army needs to feed on for survival. My hero is important and a tool, like a queen in chess. He can die, and often will, and the game should not be over. I think solution 3 is ideal. I can make any unit I want the leader. I pick something to hold the fort as my king, and I sit his ass in the home base.

And if you do what Wesnoth wants, and stick him in the base, then my army is just a bunch of lvl 1's. I dont like the concept. I want a leader on the battlefield.
Jozrael
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Re: Multiplayer - Revive Heros - Open Keeps - Change Leader

Post by Jozrael »

Well, do what you want, but I prefer the system as is.

Cept that cool #1 for UMC.
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Limabean
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Re: Multiplayer - Revive Heros - Open Keeps - Change Leader

Post by Limabean »

well, if your careful, you can use the leader to fight on some maps. I understand and agree it would be cool to have the hero fight all the battles. However, I don't think these ideas should ever be implemented in multiplayer, although they might work in a campaign. The main reason I think this is time. Even now, Wesnoth games are very long, some might say too long. But if you fight to the very last unit, that would probably extend games way too much.
When a scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
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IB
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Re: Multiplayer - Revive Heros - Open Keeps - Change Leader

Post by IB »

Your leader is a King not a Queen.
Mabuse
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Re: Multiplayer - Revive Heros - Open Keeps - Change Leader

Post by Mabuse »

i dont like your ideas, johs


you can make a mod with whatever feature you want, so you can make green tomatoes appear everywhere on the screen- i dont really care -

but what you suggest is kinda flat and sounds just noob.


the "trick" in wesnoth is, IF you want to use yur LEADER, and good Players know HOW to use theri Leader (not HERO, its a LEADER, like a KING for example), you have to estimate the risk, you must protect him, AND you cannot recruit at the same time -

thats pretty tricky -what you suggest is just "now i can send my leader everywhere without care about anything"

how lame is that. mindless use of the leader as a new concept in wesnoth :lol2:

Yu just dont know how to use your leader without losing it, nor can make a good management where it could be useful to send your leader into Battle or retreat it back to base

if you want lvl2 units then play "Age of Heroes"-Era ;). there you can recruit also lvl2 Units
and its also pretty much Fun of course.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Blarumyrran
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Re: Multiplayer - Revive Heros - Open Keeps - Change Leader

Post by Blarumyrran »

Mabuse wrote: mindless use of the leader as a new concept in wesnoth
isnt it ironic, coming from someone developing survivalX 8)
Mabuse
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Re: Multiplayer - Revive Heros - Open Keeps - Change Leader

Post by Mabuse »

....
ok, after thinking about, i guess i understand what you (Syntax Error) mean :lol2:
(beside SX is anything but mindless, but you cannot know that :P)


however, that has nothing to do with the Proposal:

"wesnoth would be perfect if i could send my Leader into Battel without worrying about anything -"

if it dies .. so what ... ? then i revive it for ... 30 Gold (and how good that nobody knows that the lvl2 and lvl3 leaders usually cost more than 30 gold)

i wonder if the thread is even meant serious, and i am amused about syntax_error as savior of the poor (again :lol2: )
Last edited by Mabuse on October 2nd, 2008, 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
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