non luck mod in the binary

[Yogibear]

I understand what you mean. Just let me point out some things:

1.
Each and every change within WML (that means introducing new commands) needs to modify the binary. There is code to process WML commands and if that code is not adapted, new commands won't work. So a change within the binary is needed anyway.

2.
What we do here is this: We invent some algorithm outside of the code, make it change numbers and because the game code doesn't know of the change we tell it to display the numbers differently from what it knows by customizing the display.
This is simply nuts. This is not meant to be offending to you, i know your idea originated from not touching the binary. But as i stated above, the binary needs to be touched anyway and i am pretty sure this kind of touch is much worse.

The better way to go is this:
Let the game code know the right numbers, so the display code can show the right numbers. That way, we don't need to tell the display code to present something else, because the numbers are already the right ones.
I must admit, i didn't fully understand your way of calculation yet. So i can't tell what is the best way to make the code "know the numbers". But i am sure changing the display is not a good idea.

[zookeeper]

Thanks yogi.

I;m not sure if you understand this right, i already have the mod done, AND IS Working properly in my test.
The problem is the following when you have a unit that have +50 defense on my system, (those that have +50 in my system, get 70% evasion in the standard mode), and you move the cursor over, say the forest, it display 70% , of course. But i need for the sake of the players, to display +50.
Pretty simple, but it can;'t be done via wml unlike the rest of the mod, i already did this changing the binary. But i want people be able to download the add-on , and not need to download the binary i have prepared, especially when it's not a mechanic that i need, but just the display, in fact it can be played without any change on the binaries, but it would look weird (you must know that 70% = +50 defense).
Since i would like peopel to have access easily to my mod i want someway to be able to change the terrain numbers display via WML, only that.

Wouldn't it be good enough to simply make some WML which would convert all the defense values of all units to correspond with your damage reduction values? Like, change all occurrences of 70% defense to 50% defense instead, so when people hover over terrain with their unit they'll see the correct numerical value.

Of course that might conflict with the way your mod handles things, but frankly I don't remember how the technical side of it works exact, so maybe it doesn't.

[Fosprey]

Zookepper, in theory, that would work, in practice, the way wesnoth handles it today, it crashes if asked to show a negative numerical value, and that's even if you ask it changing the binaries, if you do it from the wml, negative values work in bizarro ways. I need negative values.
Just create a unit with -20% in some terran and show the mouse over the terrain, it will display like 80% or 50%, wesnoth right now isn't even prepared to display negative numbers.
Of course i could make all the system work without the need the negative numberes (you must note that wesnoth isn't prepared to show the numbers 90% and 100% either) but will very clunky in several ways and look terrible.

[zookeeper]

Zookepper, in theory, that would work, in practice, the way wesnoth handles it today, it crashes if asked to show a negative numerical value, and that's even if you ask it changing the binaries, if you do it from the wml, negative values work in bizarro ways. I need negative values.

Oh yes, true enough, I forgot about that.

[Wintermute]

On the other hand, it is not like the devs don't have an ear for the needs of the community, if (and only if) there are good arguments for them and they are presented in a helpful way.

Something like this you mean?

[Max]

Wouldn't it be good enough to simply make some WML which would convert all the defense values of all units to correspond with your damage reduction values? Like, change all occurrences of 70% defense to 50% defense instead, so when people hover over terrain with their unit they'll see the correct numerical value.

i think you could also create units with a defense of e.g 1% or 75%, so it's not just mapping a bunch of values. and you'll have to address the attack dialog as well.

[Fosprey]

Well would start working in introducing a wml command in the wmltheme that allows to change the display. Of course this is the very basic idea. I will see what's the best way to implement it.

This is the thing i need two things in my mod.
1. I need to make terrain reduce or increase the damage (or a better deterministic combat)
2. Separate vision from movement (and few other changes to vision, like units somwhat blocking the vision and things like that)

and i have two options, Fork completly from the current wesnoth develeopment or "work" with the developments, working on features that allow me to have access to this in some way (via wml , optiosn etc) in the current development (for example improving the themewml, adding new stats to units id that are specific of vision).

Do you think is possible for me to work with the curren development or considering the things i need i will have to fork completly?
Of course i understand it's not a NO or YES answer, but this is my dilema.

[Soliton]

Do you think is possible for me to work with the curren development or considering the things i need i will have to fork completly?

The most definite way to answer that question is if you post your patches to patches.wesnoth.org so we can discuss them (preferably on #wesnoth-dev on IRC). They are probably the easiest way for you to convey what specifically you want to do. (At least I can not really tell from this thread so far. Though those 2 points are a good start.)

If it then turns out that those patches are really not useful/acceptable for mainline (and can't be changed/generalised to be useful) you can then just fork and continue on your own.

[bdrx]

I was wondering if this mod was ever finished. I just got this game 2 days ago, but the defensive mechanism (missing randomly all the time) drives me nuts. I like being able to have know the outcome of a move before I make it as in chess. I would much rather have a damage reduction defense mechanism rather than a hit % one. Any information you can give me on getting a mod like this will be most appreciated.

Thanks,
bdrx

[JW]

I was wondering if this mod was ever finished. I just got this game 2 days ago, but the defensive mechanism (missing randomly all the time) drives me nuts. I like being able to have know the outcome of a move before I make it as in chess. I would much rather have a damage reduction defense mechanism rather than a hit % one. Any information you can give me on getting a mod like this will be most appreciated.

Thanks,
bdrx

+1 to the army.

[Fosprey]

i have the mod finished in a weird 1.5.3 version, i say weird, because i modify the binary to change the display but the mechanic is changed on WML.
I could upload it if you really want it but i think it's a waste for the following things.
1) i don't know your interests, but the mod is not designed to work with AI, only human players, and it's not in my interests to ever make it to work with AI.
2) The game needs a completly change of units stats, and for now i only focused on changing the mechanics
3) since yogi bear and others commentary i throwed idea of doing it half WML half binary and know i'm doing everthing binary based.

Anyway, when i finish, it will never be able to be playable with AI, at least not by my hand. You are the first person to show any interest, but that's enough i will hurry to upload the pure binary non luck mod.
But even then i doubt it will be very usefull, and the following are the reasons.
1) The game needs some change that i didn't yet to keep the game interesting without luck
2) Again you probably would need to find a friend since it won't work with AI
3) Unit stats need to be reworked and i'm not investing time in that.

Anyway maybe people can find a use to the non luck mod (remeber i'm not working on a non luck mod per see but in a mod to change most of the game) so i will upload asap, hoppefully before the next week.