Galactic Empires (MP Sci-fi Scenario)

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KingdomAmericaCMG
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Re: Galactic Empires (MP Sci-fi Scenario)

Post by KingdomAmericaCMG »

Im not sure if attack thursters are soppose to be implimented, but the other day while playing the 1v1 map i bought a crusier gave it attack thrusters and when i attacked i wasnt able to move again. so id suggest fixing it in the next update or removing it from being able to be purchase. though i havnt tried any other unit to put attack thrusters.
KingdomAmericaCMG
Posts: 172
Joined: September 19th, 2008, 10:08 pm

Re: Galactic Empires (MP Sci-fi Scenario)

Post by KingdomAmericaCMG »

Mabuse wrote: also, in the next version there may be also some focus on improving GROUND battles, so there may be a little workup on SOLDIER techs, additional HP, weapons and stuff, need to work on a good system -

also new kinds of soldiers will/may be implemented.

a new tech wil be also added ---> cloning, will need very high Tech requirements and then you can simply "buy" soldiers.

also better ground battoes require better HQ`s, so i may also include HQ upgrades, additonal HP, resistances, Abilities.

for "ultimate" ground battles, some TANKS or TURRETS would be nice of course, so feel freeto contribute gfx on that matter.
The upgrades to Soldiers are nice, ground battles are tough to judge. Tanks=no becasue there isnt enough terrain to move on planets. (planets would have to be large enough for that and because of the nature of workers would cause balancing issues). Turrets=no new unit. instead give the HQ a weapon named Turrets which is about the same as the normal soldier any better then the defend has an ever greater advantage.

The biggest problem with ground battles is the spacing issue. Typically its possilbe to take up every spot on a planet with workers.

The only way I could see a change to make Ground battles is to change the whole system of how resources are developed. Not that we need to as i see in early turns ground combat works pretty well. but once you max out technology its generally easier to just blow up your Opponents Planets rather then taking their HQ jsut because of the mass of workers you'd need to kill to get to the HQ.
KingdomAmericaCMG
Posts: 172
Joined: September 19th, 2008, 10:08 pm

Re: Galactic Empires (MP Sci-fi Scenario)

Post by KingdomAmericaCMG »

A few ideas (some more balancing the others)
Increase the amount of gold each terrain that gives gold by 1, forest-1 food 2 gold, hills=3gold mountain=4gold...

Quick Ground Battles, Make ground unts mainly soldiers when they attack and kill a unit they get to move again and attack. Only until an attack doesnt kill a unit do they stop movement (much like the SX maps) but only limit this to ground units


Remove workers as a unit and instead add workers as a number on the HQ. The biggest concern here is coding the link between each planet and the HQ. instead of automaticly converting food into a new citizen. you right click on the HQ and choose to buy a new unit with food. When you buy a Soldier with food you get a soldier to pop out. When you buy a Scientist. a Scientist Pops out. When you buy a worker the number of workers on the HQ goes up.

Possiblities for workers:
1. Set planets (your HQ produces a set amount of gold and food based on the number of workers and a percentage)
Green worlds= 75% food 25% gold
Red Worlds= 5% food 75% gold
Brown Worlds= 10% food 20% gold
Ice worlds= 5% food 5% gold
What this means is there is no maximum resorces that a planet can produce which means an ever escalating resrource gain from a planet without the use of workers taking over the tiles. (though you could just code a maximun number of workers that can be used)
example: green world 10 workers = 8 food 3 gold (rounding up) red world 10 workers 1 food 8 gold.
you can beam workers up by rightclicking HQ and Transport when it beams workers down(only if you control HQ) goes to the HQ.
2. limited world resources (almost like set planets except you right click on workers to change what % of the worlds resorces they work on. like green worlds have x amount of grassland and x amount of forest. you can choose how many workers are set to each terrain. This eliminates the need for keeping them on the tiles.


with the 2 suggestions i can see of freeing up space on the map i still think that keeping it the way it is and ground combat as a secondary mode as space battles are much more intense action.

The other way which doesnt involve changing the workers is to change the planets. If you increased the HP of each planet by alot. Say small planets=150 hp and Large planets=200 But then again crusiers still win the day.


atm cruisers outbalance the game having high HP resistances to other ships and a powerfull antimatter attack. I suggest giving the cruiser a weakness. Or a level to the cruiser so that its lvl 2 and Battle ship is lvl 3 and Terran Destroyer is lvl 4 That way it increases the Upkeep of the unit. Would make sense that the Upkeep of the cruiser would be greater then the scout. Doubling the inital upkeep of the cruiser would make it harder to use cruisers where 10 cruiser=10 gold/turn now but 10 cruiser=20 gold/turn might make people buy the fighters instead. (though people might think its fun just to battle with mostly cruisers, i love the cloaked cruiser attack)

A unit with slow might be usefull, maybe the Interceptor with a slow attack.

I know its a lot but somthing to ponder
Last edited by KingdomAmericaCMG on September 29th, 2008, 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mabuse
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Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: Galactic Empires (MP Sci-fi Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

KingdomAmericaCMG wrote:Im not sure if attack thursters are soppose to be implimented, but the other day while playing the 1v1 map i bought a crusier gave it attack thrusters and when i attacked i wasnt able to move again. so id suggest fixing it in the next update or removing it from being able to be purchase. though i havnt tried any other unit to put attack thrusters.
will check that.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: Galactic Empires (MP Sci-fi Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

KingdomAmericaCMG wrote: The upgrades to Soldiers are nice, ground battles are tough to judge. Tanks=no becasue there isnt enough terrain to move on planets. (planets would have to be large enough for that and because of the nature of workers would cause balancing issues). Turrets=no new unit. instead give the HQ a weapon named Turrets which is about the same as the normal soldier any better then the defend has an ever greater advantage.

The biggest problem with ground battles is the spacing issue. Typically its possilbe to take up every spot on a planet with workers.

The only way I could see a change to make Ground battles is to change the whole system of how resources are developed. Not that we need to as i see in early turns ground combat works pretty well. but once you max out technology its generally easier to just blow up your Opponents Planets rather then taking their HQ jsut because of the mass of workers you'd need to kill to get to the HQ.
"Ground Battles" dont nessesarily mean PvP, in which Case destroying enemy Planets may be far more effective than spending huge effort in a Invasion Army.

But Future Maps may be also start in a hostile Part of the Galaxy, with heavily defended, already colonized Planets.

In which case not only a different strategy is needed (get a 3rd Soldier for example and then attack first some weak Planets with smart use of "beam/heal" tactics), but maybe also better soldiers to get advantages/planets faster.

so tanks/turrets dont need to be nessessarily be part of the players army;), it could be as well AI units (and then the players soldiers nned to be able to deal with it).

as said, i think about maybe some more Soldier types (though that would also need some changes in the beam section, as it is now only able to handle standard soldiers)

after all, even allowing more soldier types could be already too complicated, but maybe the player can develop certain infantry-techs, that can activate certian things via right-click on a soldier.

in any case some more soldier techs are no bad idea i think and as said some techs that strenghen the combat ability of the HQ maybe also a good thing.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
KingdomAmericaCMG
Posts: 172
Joined: September 19th, 2008, 10:08 pm

Re: Galactic Empires (MP Sci-fi Scenario)

Post by KingdomAmericaCMG »

Mabuse wrote: "Ground Battles" dont nessesarily mean PvP, in which Case destroying enemy Planets may be far more effective than spending huge effort in a Invasion Army.
k thanks for clearifing the ground battles cuase in pvp which is mainly what we have been playtesting.

as for alien technology i was thinkin. if you recall in High seas the ship with a 1-1 attack that put a skirmisher onboard a ship.

Alien transport has 2 attacks landing party ranged 1-1 (each turn will land an alien on a planet though im not srue what would stop them from attacking ships. how it is worked out in high seas like)

other possilble alien ships should have antimatter resistances with electrial attacks but vurnable to explosive or heat but not both (making either scouts or fighters desiarable against them)

Alienspaceport(planet attribute much like a normal spacedock except that you can recruit alien spaceships.) basicly at the heart of the alien space empire is this planet which the only way to get it is to take over their HQ and this planet you cannot put a regular spacedock.
KingdomAmericaCMG
Posts: 172
Joined: September 19th, 2008, 10:08 pm

Re: Galactic Empires (MP Sci-fi Scenario)

Post by KingdomAmericaCMG »

Question Mabuse:

How much work is invovled with creating moving planets? (people dont move them they move automaticly on thier turn)

If a map had a sun with planets that moved along an orbit.
Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: Galactic Empires (MP Sci-fi Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

KingdomAmericaCMG wrote:A few ideas (some more balancing the others)
Increase the amount of gold each terrain that gives gold by 1, forest-1 food 2 gold, hills=3gold mountain=4gold...

Remove workers as a unit and instead add workers as a number on the HQ. The biggest concern here is coding the link between each planet and the HQ. instead of automaticly converting food into a new citizen. you right click on the HQ and choose to buy a new unit with food. When you buy a Soldier with food you get a soldier to pop out. When you buy a Scientist. a Scientist Pops out. When you buy a worker the number of workers on the HQ goes up.

Possiblities for workers:
1. Set planets (your HQ produces a set amount of gold and food based on the number of workers and a percentage)
Green worlds= 75% food 25% gold
Red Worlds= 5% food 75% gold
Brown Worlds= 10% food 20% gold
Ice worlds= 5% food 5% gold
What this means is there is no maximum resorces that a planet can produce which means an ever escalating resrource gain from a planet without the use of workers taking over the tiles. (though you could just code a maximun number of workers that can be used)
example: green world 10 workers = 8 food 3 gold (rounding up) red world 10 workers 1 food 8 gold.
you can beam workers up by rightclicking HQ and Transport when it beams workers down(only if you control HQ) goes to the HQ.
2. limited world resources (almost like set planets except you right click on workers to change what % of the worlds resorces they work on. like green worlds have x amount of grassland and x amount of forest. you can choose how many workers are set to each terrain. This eliminates the need for keeping them on the tiles.

with the 2 suggestions i can see of freeing up space on the map i still think that keeping it the way it is and ground combat as a secondary mode as space battles are much more intense action.
nah, that wont happen. i actually like the idea how the economy works in that game A LOT.
therer is a hunt for "good planets", someplanets have the desireed "mountain"-tiels and stuff. and the resources of aplanet are limited. its a great system, this will not be changed.

map space is not issue here.



ground battles will be always kinda different anyway, and mapspace is also no issue here (if there are sooo much workers, then you simply shoot em down. even if the whole planet is full of workers (which is doubtful ;), the soldier would still teleported into the void right next to the planet and then be able to move on th planet from there (after shooting down a worker)

and this is mainly due to the fact that soldiers are always beamed down to the nearest available spot next to the HQ -

so you will never have ground battles with frontlines and such, it will be always a beam up/down, dealing damage (note: only units that get killed in one turn, cant get beam/healed (as long the attackers have a trasport int he orbit), for the defenders a HOSPITAL may pay off though (if they cant hold the air superiority)

still in PvP cases, the planet will be simply destroyed in most of the cases since its simply a lot easier. usually.
KingdomAmericaCMG wrote: The other way which doesnt involve changing the workers is to change the planets. If you increased the HP of each planet by alot. Say small planets=150 hp and Large planets=200 But then again crusiers still win the day.
umm, no im fine with the system as it is by now, sure i may implement a tech that allows to regenerate HP of a planet, similar to gaiacology - but maybe in samller steps so its earlier availabe

as said, its no issue that you can detroy planets instead of "conquering" them, thats just a part of the game. invasion may be kinda a surpise strike with a cloaked/slipstreamed transport for example (in PvP Case) ---- still here improved Soldiers will do a great job, and also minimize the possibilities thatthe HQ is equippet with stuff after the first round of attack

as i spoke about ground campaigns i had more PvE in mind intially, but the new techs may also spice up PvP as well, but stil its clear that space fight (air superiority) is the MAIN battlefield
KingdomAmericaCMG wrote: atm cruisers outbalance the game having high HP resistances to other ships and a powerfull antimatter attack. I suggest giving the cruiser a weakness. Or a level to the cruiser so that its lvl 2 and Battle ship is lvl 3 and Terran Destroyer is lvl 4 That way it increases the Upkeep of the unit. Would make sense that the Upkeep of the cruiser would be greater then the scout. Doubling the inital upkeep of the cruiser would make it harder to use cruisers where 10 cruiser=10 gold/turn now but 10 cruiser=20 gold/turn might make people buy the fighters instead. (though people might think its fun just to battle with mostly cruisers, i love the cloaked cruiser attack)

A unit with slow might be usefull, maybe the Interceptor with a slow attack.

I know its a lot but somthing to ponder
well, one reason for implementing the lvl2 ships was to break the superiority of cruisers, and in fact i think that interceptors can deal with cruisers quite well since cruisers are slower than interceptors - so interceptors (2+scout) may get initiative and be able to take a cruiser out without getting much retal (at daylight)

still cruisers are excellent meat of course.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: Galactic Empires (MP Sci-fi Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

KingdomAmericaCMG wrote: as for alien technology i was thinkin. if you recall in High seas the ship with a 1-1 attack that put a skirmisher onboard a ship.

Alien transport has 2 attacks landing party ranged 1-1 (each turn will land an alien on a planet though im not srue what would stop them from attacking ships. how it is worked out in high seas like)

other possilble alien ships should have antimatter resistances with electrial attacks but vurnable to explosive or heat but not both (making either scouts or fighters desiarable against them)

Alienspaceport(planet attribute much like a normal spacedock except that you can recruit alien spaceships.) basicly at the heart of the alien space empire is this planet which the only way to get it is to take over their HQ and this planet you cannot put a regular spacedock.

hehe, so far i didit had alien spaceships and alien invasions in mind (though gfx are plenty available), more like a map setting with planetes with a colonized by an alien civilisation, which also have maybe planetary defenses, but no spaceship support atm (as said far outpost) -

anfd th eplayers ahve also to invest a bit more in ground military in order to spread across the map (as said the key is here to get as much as nessessary, but as less as possible, becaseu there are stil othe rplayer that must be fighted)

aliens with ACTIVE spaceships is kinda difficult, since i see here a big source for unbalances, the player who is NOT atatcked by the alines will have a hge advantage for sure. so i would not like to implement this

imaginable would be stationary (ai guardian) ships around the bigger/biggest planets though, they would atack all ships that come intheir sight, but remain standing still if not so it can be easly avioded, but still pose a threat, due to the fact that it would be most likely light fighters with good movement, you would have to move in their range so they may have initiative -
that coud fit as well, for a far alien outpost galaxy. (on the other hand they may just pose as XP-fodder in this case, which i also woudl like to avoid, so most likely there will be no alien spaceships ;))
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: Galactic Empires (MP Sci-fi Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

as a concrete change the teleport cost will be lowered, btw ;)

intitally i thought its good that it is kinda expensive, but in the long run i see that oyu wanna gain something for your techs, and i guess 15 gold is ok, then teleport may be affordable.

if it is too expensive you may get as well two transports ;), whcih can do even some other funny things
Last edited by Mabuse on September 29th, 2008, 6:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: Galactic Empires (MP Sci-fi Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

KingdomAmericaCMG wrote:Question Mabuse:

How much work is invovled with creating moving planets? (people dont move them they move automaticly on thier turn)

If a map had a sun with planets that moved along an orbit.
hmm, never did it, but the way i'd (try to) do it to do it would be to store the unit, kill it, and create it newly on a different location

can be some hours until its fully tested and working. ;)
(but maybe also quicker, well, of course you need to test it and stuff)

however, will try to see what i can do about that
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
KingdomAmericaCMG
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Re: Galactic Empires (MP Sci-fi Scenario)

Post by KingdomAmericaCMG »

Ill be on in 4 hours id like to show you the map that i have built.

i want to make sure my fundamentals are correct before spending too much time on a map that wouldnt be played.
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Gambit
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Re: Galactic Empires (MP Sci-fi Scenario)

Post by Gambit »

just a suggestion...


use the 1.5 map editor to make a 400x400 map. make space just a little bit bigger, add some more planets around the left and right edges of space and make the planets much bigger.

fixes the ground battle issue and gives people more to explore. each planet could be the size of a very small map.
KingdomAmericaCMG
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Re: Galactic Empires (MP Sci-fi Scenario)

Post by KingdomAmericaCMG »

/offtopic

i like your empire era but something has to be done about your farming system. having 20 peasants farm and you have to right click 3 times to get food on each one is silly and takes too much time. Take ANL for example simplifies it to if farmer is on dirt it turns into farmland if farmer is on farmland it gives you gold then turns it into dirt. you could do the same.
Mabuse
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Re: Galactic Empires (MP Sci-fi Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

Gambit wrote:just a suggestion..

use the 1.5 map editor to make a 400x400 map. make space just a little bit bigger, add some more planets around the left and right edges of space and make the planets much bigger.

fixes the ground battle issue and gives people more to explore. each planet could be the size of a very small map.
lol 400x400 :lol2:

and that wont fix the "ground battle issue" - is there an issue ? - either
since the "issue" is just that ground battles are kinda different than a standard wesnoth battle, no matter how big the planet is.

ok, the small planets are a bit small i admit

but too big planets would be anyways just disturbing, as well as too big Spacemaps.

ok, a GE game where everybody take shis time can take quite some time (and yes taking a bit time may be nessessary sometimes), but still it can have a decent speed.
(at least if you are not running another map at the same time or fix some bugs)

anyway, making maps too big will only reduce strategy imo -

but of course, bigger maps are imaginalbe, 400x400, or even 200x200, and also 100x100 are just out of a scale that would make sense

-----------

feel free to make a 400x400 map though,it would end up with dull, giant territories filled with the same terrain and maybe some randomly placed clumps of wood or something.

to work out a GOOD 400x400 map in detail take VERY long, and isnt worth it either since its simply unplayable
but that isn needed anyway
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
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