Multiplayer Map - Province Clash, 3p (4p Version Added).

[Crushmaster]

Hi,
I made this map tonight. Being this is my first map released to the Wesnoth Community, any comments/advice/etc. would be greatly appreciated.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

[Crushmaster]

I'm going to try to make a bigger version of Province Clash, and (if I can make it) I should have it up in a few days or so. Don't forget to leave comments if you've downloaded the map.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

[Crushmaster]

Well, I made my new Province Clash, this one a good bit bigger than the other.
If you download it, please leave a comment!
Here it is, along with a few screenshots:

[Mabuse]

map looks aesthetically pleasing, but pls make a 4 player map

[Crushmaster]

map looks aesthetically pleasing, but pls make a 4 player map

Umm...sure. I can do that.
Thanks for the comment, by the way.
If all goes well, I should be able to have a 4 player map by...say...Monday.
And, very possibly, I can have one tommorrow.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

[Jozrael]

In terms of aesthetics, it's quite beautiful. In terms of playability, it suffers from most of the 'new mapmaker' failings which crop up repeatedly.

Most noticeable is your use of terrain clumping. Terrain clumping is bad. Check most mainline maps and tell me how many times you see two hills touch each other, or two forests, let alone 20. I'm not saying it's an unbreakable rule to have two similar (nongrassland/water/other common type without huge gameplay considerations) tiles near each other, but certainly not to the scale you use it.

If you're not looking for this to become a competitive MP map, then disregard.

[Crushmaster]

In terms of aesthetics, it's quite beautiful. In terms of playability, it suffers from most of the 'new mapmaker' failings which crop up repeatedly.

Most noticeable is your use of terrain clumping. Terrain clumping is bad. Check most mainline maps and tell me how many times you see two hills touch each other, or two forests, let alone 20. I'm not saying it's an unbreakable rule to have two similar (nongrassland/water/other common type without huge gameplay considerations) tiles near each other, but certainly not to the scale you use it.

If you're not looking for this to become a competitive MP map, then disregard.

OK, thanks for the advice. I'm working on a new four player version right now.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

[Crushmaster]

Here's the four player version of Province Clash.
This one, I believe, has better playability than its earlier versions.
Here it is, along with two screenshots:

[Jozrael]

Please count how many connected forest hexes there are and tell me if you get past two. If you do, you know something's wrong.

(Please note: I am in no way a pro mapmaker, yet I've heard this advice COUNTLESS times from the pros, notably the Doc, and am just parroting them :p)

[Crushmaster]

Please count how many connected forest hexes there are and tell me if you get past two. If you do, you know something's wrong.

(Please note: I am in no way a pro mapmaker, yet I've heard this advice COUNTLESS times from the pros, notably the Doc, and am just parroting them :p)

Well, nonetheless, I do appreciate the input.
By the way, did you play the map?
God bless,
Crushmaster.

[Jozrael]

Nope.

But I can already tell you Rebels will be way OP. Not only will they have just a solid LINE of 70d to defend against, they also have water units to rape the mid with. Just doesn't seem to be very balanced yet, though it's a cool concept. I think you got some more general work to do before playtesting, but props to you for actually getting the map out. Mine never really get to this point.

[ElvenKing]

Jozrael is correct this map still needs a lot of work to be even close to playtestable.

Apart from the forest problem, there is the problem of the bridge and ford bottlenecks. Bottlenecks a generally bad as they make it to easy too defend. Currently all the attack routes have a single hex bottleneck, this will make it impossible for anyone to attack.

There is also a complete lack of hills and mountains; dwarves would get completely destroyed.

I also am not a map expert, those are very obvious things. After you've fix those and get it to the playtesting stage you should get Doc Paterson or F8 Binds to look at it as they are the map experts.

[Crushmaster]

Hello,
I tweaked around a bit with the map. It still needs a lot of work, yes, but here are a few screenshots:

[Jozrael]

Let me just say, huge improvement. It's now got an entire other kettle of worms, but you did a great job on getting much closer to a regular MP map: the terrain looks much more varied. Now, next faux paus that you want to avoid:

almost never ever put more than one mountain next to each other. This overpowers dwarves. Dwarves are incredibly tough as it is, and when they've got their 70d it's absolutely amazing the resilience the little bastids have. Thus, it's frowned on to have more multiple mountains touching each other, and even to have many to begin with. The presence of even ONE mountain in an area is a huge effect. So you went from no mountains (which, if you include hills, IS a possibility, though it's generally good to sprinkle a couple) to WAY too many mountains. Mountains are possibly the most difficult hex to balance simply because just one of them is such a huge effect. This is coming out of my ass, but the above description is parroted again from the Doc.

In summary, great step forward, but you've got a couple more to go.

[Crushmaster]

Let me just say, huge improvement. It's now got an entire other kettle of worms, but you did a great job on getting much closer to a regular MP map: the terrain looks much more varied. Now, next faux paus that you want to avoid:

almost never ever put more than one mountain next to each other. This overpowers dwarves. Dwarves are incredibly tough as it is, and when they've got their 70d it's absolutely amazing the resilience the little bastids have. Thus, it's frowned on to have more multiple mountains touching each other, and even to have many to begin with. The presence of even ONE mountain in an area is a huge effect. So you went from no mountains (which, if you include hills, IS a possibility, though it's generally good to sprinkle a couple) to WAY too many mountains. Mountains are possibly the most difficult hex to balance simply because just one of them is such a huge effect. This is coming out of my ass, but the above description is parroted again from the Doc.

In summary, great step forward, but you've got a couple more to go.

OK, thanks. I'll work on the mountains, and maybe switch some of them out with, say, hills, and other terrain.
Thanks for all your time, I appreciate it.
God bless,
Crushmaster.