Wesband, MP dungeon-crawler (now for Wesnoth 1.9.14+ !)

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Ken_Oh
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Ken_Oh »

Golbeeze wrote:EDIT2: Interesting bug. I played online with a friend of mine and we went through about 3 floors and then we noticed my level reset to 1. I retained my upgrades in every form except my HP and XP reverted. I don't think the HP went back to starting level and my XP reset to 19 from....30s I think. Quite strange.
Very strange. You were the first player or was he?

About gold: Totally. I need to balance the gold system and make better items and stuff. It's all on the list. :)

I'm working vigorously now on making weapons that NPCs can use. There will be a function that evaluates a unit to see how powerful it is in melee, ranged or magic, then applies that to whatever weapon it has. So, if you give a spearman a sword that does 5-2, it won't just do 5-2 but will actually probably be more like 7-3. Something stronger, like a swordsman, would do more (probably just 9-4, almost like his already existing attack), but, on the other hand, a dark adept will just do 5-2.

This would be the same way how bosses would have weapons/armor/items that you can pick up when you kill them. Also, something like a mudcrawler would be filtered out as not being able to use a weapon like that. Expect to see this early next week.

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Golbeeze
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Golbeeze »

Sounds like some cool stuff coming up :)

I was the first player. I think I forgot to mention, I was a troll. In case that is found to have some effect.

EDIT: My friend found another crashing bug that has to do with a white mage. "Error while playing the game: game_error: Unknown unit type 'WhiteMage'"
My_Own_Minion: get rid of the scientist, i can take the blind guy

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Mabuse
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Mabuse »

btw, good stuff.
i played it recently and had some fun with my troll.

luckily i played the version with the clustered creeps and it was really fun.
keep up the good work.

the move system and healing is very cool -
gratz for that -

it definately greatly improves this kind of RPG gameplay
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blackcat
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by blackcat »

i got the same bug "Error while playing the game: game_error: Unknown unit type 'WhiteMage'"
to fix it i edit "stores.cfg" at wesband dir, replaced "whitemage" with "white mage"

any plans about various difficulty levels? maybe with more powerful monters and less gold?

Mabuse
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Mabuse »

just wanted to drop in and say that i didnt encountered bugs so far (other than a menu bug) which bloated the menu when i was able to grade soemthing up (melee damage or strikes)

longtime motivationwise a game like wesband lives from having something new to explore one dungeon deeper - in my opinion

so the player always wants to see new things, new floors, new themes could be added as well as tons of new entities, and here is of course also need for some high level monsters

btw, a simple solution for the creep propability could be to simply make certain creeps appear more often in the mob-list

[bla bla here]

EDIT: But i see that you got a solution in WML forum, which works even better


btw, havin' a hand crafted level once in a while could also be an option

anyway, the concept is surely a nice thing, has good potencial for tons o' fun.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

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Ken_Oh
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Ken_Oh »

The WhiteMage bug was easy enough to fix. I'm a little more concerned about the reduction to lvl 1 bug. I'll have to try to test for that a bunch.

I was hoping to be able to tell you guys that you can go ahead and use 1.5.10 for this now, but this bug https://gna.org/bugs/?12940 isn't fixed yet. Lets hope it'll be fixed for 1.5.11.

Mabuse: That menu bloating is no-doubt part of the Wesnoth menu system. The pre-1.5.9 menu system is very buggy (i.e. won't allow for correct coloration, I'm assuming you're seeing stuff like 255,0,0>). I'm hoping the current one will be overall better, but as long as bug I linked to above is still there, I can't really tell.

You're right about the need for more than just a few themes. It's on the list. Unfortunately, while I was adding the ability for henchmen to use weapons given to them, I took half of the day to find a really stupid error.

Anyway, the to do list:
-henchmen to be able to use melee and ranged weapons given to them from player
-NPCs given function to refuse weapon that isn't better or different enough from existing attacks
-most bosses given a weapon of some sort (usually better than what's in the shop), they will drop this when killed
-if an enemy NPC kills an enemy NPC, instead of dropping it, the weapon will transfer to the victorious NPC
-if an enemy NPC moves to an item on the floor, it can pick it up
-rework mobs so they spawn at higher levels
-limit henchmen to 1 per player
-release version <---i'm here, released on server

-getting attack animations working again
-let NPCs use weapon specials on weapons with them
-limit undead minions to 1 per player, excess undeads will decay every turn
-expand dark magic ability to create and advance minions (can create a lvl0 ghost similar to how WCs are created, WCs can be turned into lvl0 skeletons or lvl0 ghouls, each line can be advanced, even the WCs can get stronger)
-re-work monetary system and expand shops to have better items
-expand mobs by including other eras and creeps http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfx4vf3d_1449tm5wdx&hl=en
-release

-further class balancing, probably re-working stat damage bonus
-see about giving armor to NPCs
-start working on help docs

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Golbeeze
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Golbeeze »

Will the Troll be receiving class options? Perhaps fighter, lobber, shaman?

EDIT: I like the new version, but I can't seem to "clear" the levels anymore. I kill all the enemies but I don't get the message "level cleared" and I have to backtrack through all the floors when traveling to town and back.
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Ken_Oh »

Dumb error on my part. Fixed on the server version. Era also new but only tightening the code up. Shouldn't work any differently except for performance.

Hope there's nothing else huge wrong because I'm going to take a week-long Wes-break. I'm helping my girlfriend's brother's family move from Oregon to Maryland. Our role will be driving one of their cars the 3000 miles back here. Should be fun, but all my work for Wesband for the next week will be with pen and paper only. See you guys in a week!

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Golbeeze
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Golbeeze »

Enjoy the scenery and don't fall asleep at the wheel!

EDIT:Oh noes! It would appear that every floor now only gets about 1-2 enemies >.>
and why does it always say "AIDS # #" (#s are actual numbers) whenever I kill an enemy? The first # appears to be kills but I don't know about the other one.
Last edited by Golbeeze on February 22nd, 2009, 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My_Own_Minion: get rid of the scientist, i can take the blind guy

Talkative: You're like the Wizard of Oz, but evil.

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Fanghorn
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Fanghorn »

Hi there. I really like your "Wesband".

You successfully created something totally different out of Wesnoth. The magic system is not really bad for now as the game gets very easy after a view levels anyway because of the imbalance (found weapons are incredibly strong and magic is strong from the beginning if you are using a magic user). In myoppinion there is no need for a mana system or others. Its good like it is because normal spells become nuke spells with leveling anyway. But there could be some more class related abilities like "loner" and different "ambushes" or the "trailblazer". Trolls could need some special to reduce damage or increase their resistances at least later on as they become sitting lead ducks hence they get no "evade". At least one or too class choices for Troll would be great. Magic users could still need a second class advance like the "elder order" not giving them a second damage spell but another support spell like slowing an enemy for x rounds (x = spellpower) or providing resistances to allies near them. Is the healing skill still not working? For me it only healed 2 points no matter how much spellpower i had but the times i could use it increased with spell speed.

If you have problems with what i mean, just ask.

Thanks

Mabuse
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Mabuse »

Fanghorn wrote:Trolls could need some special to reduce damage or increase their resistances at least later on as they become sitting lead ducks hence they get no "evade".
Just for the Books:

I played with trolls only so far (and henchman mage), well and 1time with elfrogue,
and its was no real comparison

1) there are everywhere cavehexes or rubblehexes ;). these give 50% def. so if you fight at lower def than 50% its your own fault.

2) i would use trolls also in future since i think their HIGH Hp, high initial damage and regeneration comes in very handy. i rather think its quite easy with troll tbh. the elfrogue in comparison is weak



however, i confirm what golbeeze wrote, there are only 2 enemies per level now. i assume its a bug, since it makes the game kinda boring .... ;)
so we can only wait until ken returns
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Ken_Oh »

Doh, I'm sorry guys. I forgot to take one of the files out of debug mode. If you want, just open up the mob_utils.cfg in utils folder find "#{VARIABLE" take the # out and delete the next line. Also, find the {DEBUG_MSG "AIDS...} line and delete that. The mob_number variable can be changed if you want to try things out.

I don't have a way to update it at the moment. Sorry.

Fanghorn: Welcome to the discussion!

I totally agree the balance is wacked. I'm not yet 100% happy with how the general set up is. I'm thinking about it all, so I'm not ready to get down to tweaking.

Troll is limited by design. There are no templates for it because, even in the end, I think there are only a few paths.

But, I'm always open to hear skills and advancement paths, for all classes. I'm actually running out of ideas.

See you guys in a week!

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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Fanghorn »

@Mabuse Ok, i have to admit that Trolls are good and that there is nothing bad in them being limited in their development. But i dont find that many rubble tiles. Whatever. In my special experience a deft hero can be a lot easier to play. I played with Human ranger that gets 80% and up on rubble because of evade, what makes him live longer than a troll against a pack of monsters. Also he kills faster from the beginning allready and later on he still ecxcells with the right weapons.

Ken_Oh wrote:Fanghorn: Welcome to the discussion!
Thanks Ken. Just wanted to bring my two cents in after i noticed what a great deal this system for Wesnoth can be.
Ken_Oh wrote:Troll is limited by design. There are no templates for it because, even in the end, I think there are only a few paths.
Trolls dont need to have class selections but maybe subclasses like the Human "Elder Order" - "White Order" selection. Maybe giving him a bigger boulder (after some development or no range attack from the begginning and then the "Boulder throwing" Upgrade) that gets more damage out of "Body" - Points increaseing. And as an excludive opposite to that the ability to use magic as a Troll Shaman ( Summoning a small Earth elemental with limit fighting but higher tanking abilities, or maybe Fire Rain(moderate consecutive fire attack) vs Ice Drain (strong slowing melee attack). There are so many possibilites....

I cant help with the technical problems but what about other wesband races (beastman(mutating?), halfling(Slinger, Bard))?

Btw, what about female hero sprites?

Troll or not, armor sucks in my oppinion never came to use one because the early armor has too many cons and most armors lower the evade rate a lot. Tanks just dont have enough HP to stand a horde of monsters. Deft heroes are only endangered by magic users and still can kill them easily because of their high number of attacks. Well those are just my thoughts after some long games and id really like to meet one or more of you at the public server in order to make some test games.


Ok, this went far away enough allready. Thanks for your time.

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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Qes »

First, thanks for the tip on why there were hardly any monsters.

Ideas:

When last I was around, I talked about this as a theory. I suggested that "factions" exist within the cave, that fight one another. In this, Monsters might be attacked by a computer AI with limited abilities - little "townships" that would crop up in the random generation very rarely, but often enough.

Inside these little townships would be guards (who wouldnt leave the area), and shops with unique things to buy. Dwarven townships would have dwarven goods (i like the idea of consumables and the like being the primary use of these shops, but possibly with unique weapons and armor or other equipables). Other subterranean peoples might be discovered, each with their own uniqueness.


*Upgrades*

I recommend creating a branch system which allows for some overlap. This is to say - a whole rewrite of the advancement system.
I'd take a look at the old Heroes Arena - TL was making an upgrade for it, but the old version had a great leveling system in the way it rewarded people.

I understand the need for iterative efffects, something people can always just pump "more talent points into." However the things that are "oo" worthy are almost always those specials like skirmishing, and the like.

I recomend, then, that Armor and Weapons be RACE specific. I.e. only useable by certain races. And abilities be non specific.

What this would look like is something like the following:

Race: Choose between Human, Elf, Dwarf, or Troll. (I'd add Orc in here too). - This decides what kinds of weapons and armor can be used, and also the starting stats - (body, deftness, mind).
Then they'd choose their class, (insert like 12 or 16 classes here). These would determine the STARTING skills/abilities a character would have.


Now, the tree would always be connected to everything else. So a rogue could turn into a wizard. A wizard could turn into an axe-wielding behemoth - if it picks that path. All the tree would branch OUTWARD, making specialization much different than being a jack of all trades.

I'd recommend making all the weapon specializations further down the tree, as "strikes" become very very VERY powerful the further along in the game one gets and "power" means less and less as more powerful weapons are found. Weapon specialization perhaps could be remade so that "power" levels are more than a point in increase, and strikes still incredibly hard to get.

So, in the beginning, concentration of points would be in raising body, deft and mind, along with any immediate abilities that would be accessible because of their class.

I'm a fan of late game characters being wholly unique - one never looking quite like another. And progressive abilities like the heroes arena "cold-plauge" line.
Cold damage became magical became draining, became plauged It took a long time to get there, but someone would be able to make WC's.

So things of that nature are always fun, "unlocking" powerful elite abilities through specialization, or just being a weapons powerhouse jack of all trades are really fun ways to play.

Just some thoughts. :)
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Orcish Shyde »

Playing on 1.5.11, whenever I try to change my equipped weapon or armour, doing so sends me back to the "Select Weapon/Armour" screen, which has no option to get rid of the menu. The only way I've found out of this loop is to exit Wesnoth entirely...
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